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Author Topic: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]  (Read 72484 times)

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Offline Chibi

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #75 on: January 18, 2009, 12:48:40 am »
I think he's talking about a fish other than the wolf fish in the Kelp Forest - I just checked, and the fish are definitely invincible.

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Offline silverflagon

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2009, 01:13:45 am »
Yes those fish are just impossible to kill and inflict some nasty damage on you, so he must mean  those down below?
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/485144/Tiger%20Tank.mp3

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Offline Zeke

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2009, 08:19:17 am »
There's three kind of fish: the lamp-fish in the abyss, which you can kill.  Then there's two kinds (or maybe three) of cave/crevasse-lurking fish, one of which is the wolf fish and is invincible, and one of which is very similar looking and acting, but can be killed.  Edit after I find the name of it.

Offline silverflagon

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2009, 08:12:31 pm »
and one of which is very similar looking and acting, but can be killed.  Edit after I find the name of it.
Is this the one with really large jaws and in the caves with loads of bones and the dead king??
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/485144/Tiger%20Tank.mp3

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Offline Zeke

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #79 on: January 19, 2009, 06:33:22 pm »
Maybe?  It's in the chomper folder in the gfx directory.  I suppose it does look more like the anglerfish than the wolf fish; oh well.

Offline silverflagon

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #80 on: January 19, 2009, 09:13:28 pm »
Maybe?  It's in the chomper folder in the gfx directory.  I suppose it does look more like the anglerfish than the wolf fish; oh well.
I don't know what they are called but for a change these can be killed, and there are also 2 in the dark area where most of those black leaches are.
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/485144/Tiger%20Tank.mp3

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Offline Zeke

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2009, 09:25:01 am »
Hallo again all.  My game functionality questions go here, and here's another:

Is there a way to tell from the .lua files for the three attacking familiars which one doles out the most damage the fastest?  I know the piranha has the added benefit of adding to your Beast Form cache, but in terms of straight-up attacking power, I can't tell which is the best.  I also can't interpret the info from the .lua files, either.   ???  Something to do with lunge delay, shot power, something-or-other?

Offline Alphasoldier

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2009, 11:36:30 am »
Well, let's first look at the Blaster Pet...
Code: [Select]
Damage = 1                       the damage, obviously.
|
lungeDelay = 1.0                  said in the first piece of code.
|
lungeDelay = lungeDelay - dt * (getPetPower()+1)      the lunge delay, which is propably how long it waits before attacking,
                                                    weird it's 3 here and 1.0 in the first piece of code
if lungeDelay < 0 then                                         I have no clue what dt or getPower is...
fireDelay = fireDelay - dt * (getPetPower()+1)
if fireDelay < 0 then
if ent ~= 0 and ent ~= n then
s = createShot("PetBlasterFire", me, ent, entity_x(me), entity_y(me))
tx, ty = entity_getTargetPoint(ent, 0)
vx = tx - entity_x(me)
vy = ty - entity_y(me)
shot_setAimVector(s, vx, vy)
end
shotsFired = shotsFired + 1
fireDelay = 0.2              here it's obvious what fireDelay is, it's 0.2, which,
end                                      in total, makes 0.6, seeing he fires 3 shots.
if shotsFired >= 3 then
lungeDelay = 3           here it's shown that lunge delay is 3,
fireDelay = 0         but I have no clue what it eventually becomes in the piece of code above.
shotsFired = 0
end
end
The pet Dumbo...
Fairly easy, no damage at all. ^^

The Pet Nautilus...
Code: [Select]
Damage = 1
|
lungeDelay = 1.0                  said in the first piece of code.
|
lungeDelay = lungeDelay - (dt * (getPetPower()+1))
if lungeDelay < 0 then
lungeDelay = 3                              and here it's also 3, just like the blaster pet.
ent = entity_getNearestEntity(me, "", 512, ET_ENEMY, DT_AVATAR_PET)
if ent~=0 and not entity_isDamageTarget(ent, DT_AVATAR_PETNAUTILUS) then
ent = 0
end
if ent ~= 0 then
--debugLog(string.format("pet setting target: %s", entity_getName(ent)))
entity_setTarget(me, ent)
entity_setState(me, STATE_ATTACKPREP, 0.5)
end
end
This... sort of shows that the blaster pet is a bit better, cause he fires 3 shots, and they all do 1 damage. But, those shots might miss every now and then.

And finally the Piranha...
Code: [Select]
Damage = 0.75
|
lungeDelay = 1.0    again the 1.0, propably just a starter, so the thing can attack right away when equipped.
|        would it be possible to kill faster if you kept changing the pets? I don't know. Nor do I ever want to go through the trouble.
spd = 0.6
|
if dist < 16 then
shotDrop = shotDrop - dt
if shotDrop < 0 then
createShot("PetPiranha", me, 0, entity_x(me), entity_y(me))
shotDrop = 0.3
spd = 0.4
end
end
In this last piece of code it's rather unclear what exactly happens. Though the spd, which is obviously speed, I hope, I think that that would be the delays between the bites when he's already attacking.

So, conclusion... You better just shoot yourself, they are not that helpful, but in statistics... Blaster pet does 1 damage per shot, nautilus does 1 damage per hit, piranha does 0.75 damage per bite, if you would time how much they hit in so many seconds, I bet you could figure out, I'm tired of looking at too much code now. @_@

Oh... and excuse me for the long post, I hope I at least answered a bit of your question.
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Offline Zeke

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #83 on: February 24, 2009, 01:52:52 am »
Hmm.  Based on all that, it looks like the Blaster has the maximum damage total, at 3 if all shots hit, followed by the Piranha at 2.25 if all three bites connect, and the Nautilus weighing in at 1.  Since they all have the same lunge delay, there's no advantages there.  Also, the getPetPower bit of code refers to the Leadership Roll, which grants the status PetPower to Naija, in the ingredientdescriptions.txt and ingredients.txt files in the data folder.  This, I think, decreases the lunge delay by one, increases either damage or number of shots/bites by one, and in the case of the Dumbo Octopus increases its lighting heresabouts: 

        glow = createQuad("Naija/LightFormGlow", 13)
   quad_scale(glow, 5 + (getPetPower()*8), 5 + (getPetPower()*8))

However, considering the damage Naija  can mete out, the other advantages the familiars provide is probably the greater factor in terms of total usefulness, the light-providing from the Dumbo Octopus and the Beast Shot acquisition from the Piranha.  Incidentally, that's probably what that last bit of code was about (I think).

Offline Tarami

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #84 on: February 24, 2009, 01:53:39 am »
Hi all!   ;D First post here.

dt is the elapsed time in second since the last call of the function (event). I imagine it's an abbrevation for "delta time", or time difference between frames. The pattern you see,

Code: [Select]
fire = fire - dt * (getPetPower() + 1)
if (fire < 0) ...
    fire = 3

is a method of triggering the fire event at a consistent rate. It reduces the variable by (dt) each frame, which, again is the delay in seconds since the last update. getPetPower() defaults to 0 (no pet powerup), so the normal rate is that fireDelay decreases by (0 + 1) per second. In case the pet is buffed, the reduction will be multiplied by the power-up level. So a +1 pet will attack twice as often (removing 2 from fireDelay per second) and a theoretical +2 pet will attack thrice as fast et cetera.

The variable "lungeDelay" is the rate, in seconds, between target acquisions for the pet. Lunge is a fencing manoeuvre, that of thrusting your blade forward while bending one leg and extending the other. Errol Flynn, ho!  :D The differing values between initialization (top of file) and game loop is not important. The init value will only be used once (per summoning of pet? Per game? Unsure, this depend upon how Alec has implemented the lua script engine. I'm guessing every summon, to keep script bloat down.)

So in other words, it's the maximum time it takes for the pet to go from passive to aggressive. I say maximum, because the way the pets are coded, an enemy could come within sight when there is only a split second left of the lungeDelay cycle, so it will react almost immediately. In practiality the pet can react in anything between 0.01 seconds and the full duration of lungeDelay.

--

Truth is,  because of this lungeDelay, the pets' individual attack speeds are almost insignificant.

Looking at the different pets from a technical standpoint, it's very hard to draw any solid conclusions of which pet is better. The actual damage values seem to be hidden inside the game code, as specific kinds of "shots" that are created to emulate the attacks. I couldn't find the values Alpha mentions, but I will assume these are correct for now.  ;)

For example, the Nautilus pet is the only (well, in theory, unless they're stacked on top of eachother in which case the piranha would also) one that can damage multiple enemies with its charging attack. On the other hand, the Blaster pet will deliver a more sustained and focused damage. Then again, the piranha is the only one that will heal you by devouring your enemies.

However. The piranha is the only offensive pet that does not reset its lungeDelay after a successful series of attacks. Unlike the others, it does not wait 3 seconds between each attack cycle. It's also the only pet that by design will pursue the same target until either Naija or the enemy is dead. In my opinion, along with the heals received from it eating the enemies, makes it the by far most efficient damage pet to have. The Blaster, by comparison, while doing more damage per attack, has a large chance of swapping target, altogether missing with its projectiles and does not contribute with any synergetic effects like heals. Not surprisingly, the Nautilus does rank lowest, considering its very situational attack (a straight line) and low damage per hit, along with the high lungeDelay.

Words, words!  :D Not sure what came out of that, but I think I made up my own mind on pets atleast.

- T

Edit:
Wanted to make a little clarification on the "not changing targets" clause for the piranha;

It does, in theory, change target, but seeing how it's a "melee" pet, it will remain very close to the original target and reacquire the same enemy every lunge cycle. Unless it's a very fast enemy.  :(
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 02:00:53 am by Tarami »

Offline Zoko

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #85 on: February 24, 2009, 08:39:29 am »
Hey, welcome to BitBlot!

The piranha, however, will stop targeting something when it goes out of it's range, and since the game involves a lot of swimming away from your enemies so they don't kill you, this could happen very often. Or with lunging enemies, which are at times too fast to follow. I've had my piranha uselessly swim around me in trying to get at the nearest enemy while everyone else was ripping me to shreds. Blaster shots don't do that. Although that may be just because I prefer the blaster peg. I think the functionality of a pet depends on the enemy.
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Offline Alphasoldier

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #86 on: February 24, 2009, 10:40:26 am »
Whoah, that bring some clarification to dt and the pets!

The values of the damage they give is what I found in data/shots there are a few files like petblasterfire.txt, petnautilus.txt and petpiranha.txt
Honestly, if you think your pet is weak, just upgrade their attack by changing these files.
In fact, if I looked correct, you could upgrade Naija's Energy attack... but that would be like cheating. D:

Oh and Zoko, I don't swim away, I always kill. :3
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Offline Tarami

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #87 on: February 24, 2009, 11:38:19 am »
No problem  ;)

I eventually found my way into the data directory, it's fairly clearly stated there, I agree. :D Currently I'm mucking about with making pets react to singing... I'll get back to you when I got some solid progress (they are reacting, just not sure what I'm to do with it.)

Offline Align

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #88 on: February 24, 2009, 04:28:49 pm »
Different pets suit different enemies; I believe piranha can significantly slow down its target, but it takes longer to actually kill anything than nautilus.

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Re: **kh egg and other questions [Spoilers]
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2009, 04:32:40 pm »
thanks for shedding some clarity on pet behaviour Tarami! you pose a strong case for the Piranha
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