Supported Platforms

[kung]

Hi there,

as this is my first post here a few words to my  person. I'm concerened with linux gaming since a couple of years now. I'm part of the linuX-games.net team and heard about this game about one of my colleagues. Now I would like to give here a few comments on the topic and a few arguments to port this game to Linux.

First of all I'd really appreciate aquaria beeing released as a native Linux game. In first place since there are too few recent titles for this platform and each new game is befenicial for Linux as a gaming market.

I fully understand the developer's position, who consider (and have to consider) twice whether they port their game to Linux or wether they don't since for Linux there is not (yet) a huge market like there is for some other OS.

On the other hand I can see a bigger potential for small companies to succeed in this sector and gain profit than for the big enterprises due to the lack of recent tiltles for Linux and due to the fact that even a relatively small number of customers makes a difference. I fully agree with RHLinuxGUY who mentioned the system of making mandatory preorders for the case the game is ported. So users decide if they want this game and developers got a direct feedback wether their efforts get rewarded.

At the end of y post I'like to mention, that our project is always interested in some feedback of game developers and publishers why or why not they consider Linux as a market and how the situation could be improved.

[shinygerbil]

Just to finish off, did you take a look at how Google made the Picassa Linux port? It's basically the original Windows executable bundled with Wine and hammered into working transparently (i.e. as a single package). I didn't even notice this at first until I listed the running processes. Not something ideal, but certainly a path which would present less resistance.

I was actually thinking that. I believe their port of Google Earth is very similar; just Wine as some kind of static library, and the actual program hacked to bits until it all works well enough to be acceptable. To be honest, as long as the Wine part is "transparent" I wouldn't be too fussed. (I believe some others have slated Google for this, but they at least accept that it's much better than it could have been!)

Also, I agree wholeheartedly that cross-platform, if it is to be intended, needs to be taken into consideration from the start of a project. If it is not, then there is almost no point to making something cross-platform, as it will essentially involve a complete rewrite of those parts which are not compatible.

wesley: I'm glad I'm not spouting nonsense! I do think it's worth a look, at least. I'm not sure what else would need to be rewritten, as I'm fairly certain there is an already-existing OpenGL implementation for the Wii.

[gaminggeek]

I was actually thinking that. I believe their port of Google Earth is very similar; just Wine as some kind of static library, and the actual program hacked to bits until it all works well enough to be acceptable. To be honest, as long as the Wine part is "transparent" I wouldn't be too fussed. (I believe some others have slated Google for this, but they at least accept that it's much better than it could have been!)

Ryan Gordon (same guy who works with epic to bring us UT for linux and mac os) did the port for google earth it was just googles photo thingy that was winelib

[creak]

Alec, I've read all your posts on this thread. Despite your monolog about how we are "idealistic crazy fool idiots", I quite agree with you: there isn't a huge market on Linux.
In fact, there is almost no market simply because there is not a lot of products to buy... And not because Linux users are non-gamers!

I desperatly want games on Linux, and as a developer in Ubisoft I hope I will help in this way one day (but it's not easy to persuade this kind of editors...)
Actually, I'm not very fond of your game. It's not a style that interests me, so I won't say the classic "+1 I'd buy your game if you do a Linux port".
If you don't want to port your game, fine! No big deal for me

However, think that maybe you could be one of the games that raised Linux to a game platform, as Ubuntu raised it to a desktop one.
Ok, it's completely idealistic! It makes you laugh? Fair enough... But for the moment, doing a game for Linux is being a pioneer, whether you like it or not.
I understand you're interested in the benefits a Linux port will bring you. But be aware that we are patient people and if the port is done in one year, we can handle it.

I'm not sure a Linux port will bring you lots of money. But I'm quite sure it'll bring code stability (as for all other multi-platform applications) and recognition from all the Linux users. Which is quite something as we can see the god-like status of the Epic and Id Software firms.

Now, whether you do a port or not, I honestly don't care. It makes 6 years now that I'm on Linux (without any Windows installed). I was a gamer and I still like it, that's why I work in this industry and that's why I buy consoles now.
I'm sure Linux will be a game platform, one day. In two years it has become a desktop OS with eye candy stuff etc, why not for gaming?

Apparently there is no sound lib that prevents you from months of work. Now you know it, you know the conditions to make a port.
You can still ask Bass to make a Linux port. Maybe they are already considering this, who knows?

Farewell my friend!

[shinygerbil]

I was actually thinking that. I believe their port of Google Earth is very similar; just Wine as some kind of static library, and the actual program hacked to bits until it all works well enough to be acceptable. To be honest, as long as the Wine part is "transparent" I wouldn't be too fussed. (I believe some others have slated Google for this, but they at least accept that it's much better than it could have been!)

Ryan Gordon (same guy who works with epic to bring us UT for linux and mac os) did the port for google earth it was just googles photo thingy that was winelib

Fair enough, I was misinformed. I was fairly certain that at least early ports were Wine-based. I probably got it mixed up with Picassa!

[Slacker]

If there is another shiny, and easy to use audio library for Linux that is affordable, then I'd be more willing to consider a port.

I have written a game for Windows & Linux (which also runs on the Mac & two other platforms I've never heard of) & have used SDL_Mixer. I found it to be very straightforward to use. I've no idea if it will be enough for what you need, but you can find the documentation to read on it here. Like SDL itself, this library is free.

Hope this is of some help to you.

[gaminggeek]

I have had a closer look at fmod and they do an offer for shareware/hobbyest developers where it is only $100 I don't know if that is too much for your budget but you might like to consider it even if its only to get the fmod code in there for when you want to go the console route.

[RHLinuxGUY]

Why, this thread certainly got a lot of attention.

[taiyo]

Hello there!

I thought I would post to this thread after reading the article on linux-gamers.net.
It would be very exciting to have your game run on Linux as I know no other game which comes close to the style Aquaria has. I like the idea of an action-oriented game together with magical elements and non-linear gameplay. If your game proves to be fun (even though it has no multiplayer) I am certain it will have a long life thanks to the inbuilt editor/modding framework (just take a look at Blizzard's strategy games, Unreal Tournament... ) .
There probably isn't a huge market for Linux games yet, but once there are a few more, many more gamers sympathising with the Linux OS might switch and subsequently spend money on games which are available for it.
I encourage you to make a native Linux port, and if you do, try to track the number of customers who actually play Aquaria on Linux so you can get an idea about how much it influences your sales.

[Alec]

Despite your monolog about how we are "idealistic crazy fool idiots"

I wasn't referring to all Linux Users, just a couple of people who posted here.

SDL_Mixer: I tried this a while ago, it can't stream two files at once, its crashy, cant load all files

FMOD: They'd charge us more than $100, I believe.

IrrKlang: Looks promising? I'll try to take a look at it when I get a chance.

Re: Porting to the Wii. That'd be a complete conversion. The code is set up to port though. The sound system is abstracted, it can be replaced with another system.

The problem is "just" finding the right system.

But, a Wii version would also play differently. So it would be much like writing the game again anyways. The Wii has special hardware, and a huge user base. There would be much more incentive and interest to work on a specialized port.

[Matt]

That's an impressive trailer for the game.

I would buy this game if it were released natively for linux and it maintained what looks to be a great, original game.

Congratulations regardless on putting in the effort to make a great game, regardless of platform.

[wesley]

Alec: Thanks for taking the time to at least do your best to also support linux. We can't ask more from you and Derek.

I hope IrrKlang proves to be a positive experience and that a linux port will be available not too far after the windows/mac release.

FMOD is very expensive if you are developing a commercial application, so that's a no-go. Shame though, because from what I have seen (or rather: heard ) it is a very capable and professional audio library.

[Alec]

FMOD still can't crossfade two streams like BASS can, which is weird.

With Aquaria, there's a brief period where three streams could be playing at once. One music track fading out over another, with a voice over playing.

[wesley]

SDL_Mixer: I tried this a while ago, it can't stream two files at once, its crashy, cant load all files

I suppose using channels in sdl_mixer is no solution, as it probably doesn't work with streams? http://jcatki.no-ip.org/SDL_mixer/SDL_mixer.html#SEC21

Well, and it's not the only problem according to you, so it might be best to forget sdl_mixer and look for something better.

FMOD still can't crossfade two streams like BASS can, which is weird.

Are you sure? The feature matrix claims this: "Advanced streaming engine supporting gapless stitching/sentencing of sounds, low cpu overhead, multiple stream support, over-ridable file callbacks and more."
http://www.fmod.org/ifmodfeatures.html

[Alec]

SDL_Mixer: "Streams" are called "Music", and you can only play one "Music" at a time.

FMOD: Yeah, I tried implementing it before, and there were a number of roadblocks. The main one was that it couldn't fade while streaming on another thread.

It wouldn't be impossible to work around them, (i.e. by not cross fading) but the major thing about FMOD is the price.