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Author Topic: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)  (Read 41591 times)

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Offline Sabreur

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Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« on: December 28, 2007, 04:40:14 am »
I didn't like Li when he first showed up.    >:(

A large part of the game was the tremendous feeling of solitude.  No matter how many bizarre creatures Naija encountered, it didn't change the fact that she was utterly unique and alone.  Finding a companion felt like something that should be at the end of the game, not the middle.  I seriously considered leaving him in the cave, just to preserve that quiet, calm feeling.  I decided against it on the grounds that it might cause me to miss storyline.

He shot things, too.  That kind of aggravated me, even if you could turn it off.  Naija was plenty strong!  She didn't need anybody protecting her!  There were even times when I'd much rather sneak past enemies when the overly trigger-happy Li would start a fight anyways.  Besides, he looked kinda scrawny.  Not exactly an aquatic Prince Charming.  He didn't seem too bright either, following Naija around like a pet.

I was pondering where to go next, leaving Naija and Li floating stationary in the water while I thought about possible routes and secrets.  Suddenly, Naija and Li moved on their own - and hugged and smiled.  It was freaking adorable.  ^-^

That was when it all changed for me.  Suddenly, Li's over-protectiveness became cute.  The trusting way he followed Naija around, putting faith in her experience (even to the point of turning off his weapon if she asked!).  The way that he didn't interfere with Naija's chosen life of exploration, instead following her and supporting her as best he could.  I started noticing random bits of cuteness, like the way they would look at each other when they weren't doing anything else.  I could really understand what Naija saw in him.  When he was taken away I actually exclaimed in dismay, and eagerly looked forward to finding the creature responsible and filling it full of energy shots.  Thankfully, no one was around to hear my delighted squeal when they were reunited, or I'd still be catching hell for it.

Not bad for a character who never says anything.  :)

Offline dhakkel

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 05:14:36 am »
I loved when Li showed up. I wasn't expecting it at all and it was nice to see Naija happy for a while.

And you hit the nail on the head with the following/protecting thing. It's a very human thing to do. If you meet a mermaid and she gives you the ability to breathe underwater, you follow her. If she starts shooting stuff and you happen to have a blaster bracelet, you shoot the stuff she shoots.

I was really mad when Li was taken away, but for story reasons I was kinda hoping that was the last you'd see of him. I love bittersweet endings, and although this did give one I still think I would have personally enjoyed it more if Li was never returned. Snatched away in an instant then lost forever! The true power of a creator.

That said, the rest of the Li story is pretty good and obviously helps with the idea of a sequel, so that's good I guess.

Offline Glamador

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2007, 06:16:02 pm »
Well if Li had been taken away then I can only assume <SPOILERS MASSIVE SPOILERS> that Mia wouldn't have had to do much convincing to turn Naija evil...it was Li and her children that kept her going after her climactic battle.  The ending wouldn't have been as much "bittersweet" and "downright tragic" if Li had never returned.

But of course I've made clear that I never liked Li in the least.  I don't care how clingy he was, I don't endear myself to people just because they're there.  I need character development darnit!

This...game...ROCKS!
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Offline Sabreur

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2007, 07:31:12 pm »
Well if Li had been taken away then I can only assume <SPOILERS MASSIVE SPOILERS> that Mia wouldn't have had to do much convincing to turn Naija evil...it was Li and her children that kept her going after her climactic battle.  The ending wouldn't have been as much "bittersweet" and "downright tragic" if Li had never returned.

But of course I've made clear that I never liked Li in the least.  I don't care how clingy he was, I don't endear myself to people just because they're there.  I need character development darnit!

It's weird, normally I would agree with you.  But for some reason, I usually end up feeling pretty attached to silent characters - Chrono from Chrono Trigger, Gordon Freeman from Half Life, and now Li.  I think it's because I mentally 'fill in' the missing development with whatever I want them to be.

Besides, it would have been hard to give him much development without stealing the show from Naija.  It's an aquatic world - verse-mutated or not, he's a surface dweller.  The water is Naija's element, which meant that she would inevitably be the one taking the lead and making the major decisions.  I don't see how Li could really fit in as anything but a quiet, loyal follower.

Ultimately, I liked Li because of how Naija reacted to him, rather than because of my own impressions of him.  The game gave me a lot of empathy of Naija.  I wanted her to not be lonely.  I cringed at the parts where she felt sad or upset - the freakout in the Mithalas Cathedral was especially unpleasant.  The first part of the game made her seem increasingly desperate and alone.  Li showed up at just the right time.  He made her happy (that freaking hug, I swear...), and that really was enough for me.  Naija's a good person, Li makes Naija happy, therefore I like Li.  Not exactly high-level logic, but it worked for me.

Offline Romosome

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2007, 07:42:55 pm »
I felt much the same way as Sabreur, really.  I initially didn't like Li because he went against the feeling of loneliness and solitude that pervaded the rest of the game.

In my case I was so in love with the feeling of being lost completely alone in that world that I turned off my pets most of the time.

I eventually became used to Li and appreciated him more (and yes, seeing him hug Naija helped that by being so sweet...a very nice touch on the part of the devs to include a little random action like that) but my other minor nitpick with him was Dual Form.  Dual Form de-emphasized Naija a bit aesthetically...in terms of game mechanics, you'd spend nearly all the time in Dual Form on Li's side, blasting stuff, and then switch to Naija's side for only the briefest moment to let off the scream.  I just feel that she should've been granted the "primary" side rather than the more powerful but far less frequently used side.

Yet another minor quibble...so many little things in this game I want to leave feedback on, just because it's so good.

Offline dhakkel

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2007, 07:59:59 pm »
Well if Li had been taken away then I can only assume <SPOILERS MASSIVE SPOILERS> that Mia wouldn't have had to do much convincing to turn Naija evil...it was Li and her children that kept her going after her climactic battle.  The ending wouldn't have been as much "bittersweet" and "downright tragic" if Li had never returned.

But of course I've made clear that I never liked Li in the least.  I don't care how clingy he was, I don't endear myself to people just because they're there.  I need character development darnit!
Well obviously the ending wouldnt have worked at all if Li hadnt come back. The game would have a different, probably darker ending. Which I am a fan of :D!

Like in Breath of Fire 5, (bof5 spoilers follow) I was really hoping the world would be a charred desert or something when you finally get up there and maybe the game continued for a bit and showed how they'd begin rebuilding the world or something, but nooo lets just have it all green and happy instead. That's much more interesting ._.

Offline IceD

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2007, 09:13:05 pm »
There always has to be a happy ending  :). Aquaria shouldn't deserve such a dark end, but in fact it is somehow sad - Naija ends up in a crystal, imprisoned by her own mother. But we have a spoiler and propably a starter for the next adventure - what else is needed?  :)

As for the Li, I think he has a special part in this story. Without him, this story would be very different. I didn't like the felling Naija was alone all the time. Li had made this feeling gone. His care and attention for her made the story turn up to be a tale about people and their struggle for personal happiness, freedom and love. Yeah, I had three moments, when I shed a tear - when Naija reched the top of the veil for the first time, when she found her last memory in the deeps of abyss (ahh, the music made this moment very special) and when she hugged with Li for the first time. And when tears come out from my eyes, there must be something special in things that make me do so :). Finally, I would rather say that by finishing this game we just start an epic tale and we won't know what will be next, so now we can only imagine and wait for the sequel  ;)

Offline Xocrates

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2007, 10:06:49 pm »
Hum... Does it make me a bad person the fact that I always treated Li as another of Naija's pets?  :(

Offline Glamador

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 04:47:51 am »
Not at all, so did I.  But maybe I'm a bad person too....oh well!  I endear myself to characters like Chrono and Gordon Freeman and Link as well.  But even THEY have backstory and interaction with other characters.  You learn about Gordon from how the other characters react and interact with him.  You know Link from his body language and his goals and facial expressions.  You know Chrono from the way his family talks about him and how his friends talk about him.  Every character that's ever been a "silent character" has had something ELSE to show who he is and what his personality is like.  Li lacked even basic story.  The most we ever knew about him was that he met Naija in a boat long ago.  That's not enough for her to instantly fall in love and vise versa!  I don't care HOW cute he is!  Plus I hate his hair.

This...game...ROCKS!
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Offline Xiagan

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2008, 01:44:46 pm »
I guess you wanted to post in another topic?
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Offline Lenick

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 07:19:42 pm »
I've been wondering if Li's a silent character because:

a) He speaks a completely different language so he doesn't bother trying to communicate with words.
b) He just doesn't like talking
c) He talks, but it's just not shown.

Offline EntiteFred

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 07:52:46 pm »
Quote
I've been wondering if Li's a silent character because:

a) He speaks a completely different language so he doesn't bother trying to communicate with words.
b) He just doesn't like talking
c) He talks, but it's just not shown.

d) He can't speak underwater, he is a human after all.

Offline Xiagan

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2008, 08:06:41 pm »
Quote
I've been wondering if Li's a silent character because:

a) He speaks a completely different language so he doesn't bother trying to communicate with words.
b) He just doesn't like talking
c) He talks, but it's just not shown.

d) He can't speak underwater, he is a human after all.

So he can now breath underwater but not talk? I don't think we should discuss about normal physics in a fantasy game. ;)
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Offline Zixinus

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 08:24:33 pm »
Quote
a) He speaks a completely different language so he doesn't bother trying to communicate with words.
b) He just doesn't like talking
c) He talks, but it's just not shown.

You forgot d: the developers didn't want more voice acting.

Actually, it is obvious that both Naija and Li talked somehow. Perhaps Naija formed a telepathic link?

Offline megablake

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Re: Thoughts on Li (Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 08:27:20 pm »
Makes sense to me.  After all, Najia and all those other underwater races adapted to communication underwater, but even with the magic of breathing underwater (and is that something he can only do when Najia's around?  I mean, when you leave him alone, he puts on his helmet) his vocal cords and hearing are still surface-adapted.