So whens the sequel? :p

[FaeDyne]

Despite any criticism I might have, I'd still like a sequel even if it was done the same as Aquaria in almost every way. (although a new gameplay style would be nice)

I'm sorry that Aquaria has been too difficult to repeat the process, but aren't you going to get that with ANY game you make?? How is the current game you're working on going to be spared from criticism? Is it because it doesn't have a forum? You could just close the forum.
I don't want to say the issue is irrelevant, just that it's not irreconcilable, and that I think you'll still have to deal with the issue if you keep on the profession of game-making. (I don't know if you have other jobs, like music composition or music playing; and whether they're free from criticism or just of significantly less criticism...)

IMO, Xenogears had a pretty terrible story, and the storytelling was even worse. It even degraded into a novel at the end. (I'm guessing they ran out of time to finish the game properly? They just ended up having large periods of text followed by a single boss or single dungeon)

I enjoyed playing through Xenogears, but I can't for the life of me remember anything about the plot, because it was so convoluted.

I think Aquaria relies a lot on the player's imagination to fill in the gaps. Its a more subtle/light way of telling a story. I guess the downside of that is that some people fill in the gaps with "OMG IT WOULD HAVE TO BE THIS STUPID THING THAT I HATE LOL".

Oh well, you win some, you lose some. You can't make people who are determined to hate something like it.

And that's one of the main reasons why I don't ever want to have to make a sequel.

I haven't played Aquaria recently to re-evaluate how your story-telling relates to any of these issues.
On a similar note about leaving things up to the audience to imagine, I get pretty sick and tired of the TV show Lost doing that, but they give no hints at all.

I do think there was some cheesiness in the voice acting. Over-dramatic in places.
I think voices in games are a lot more demanding than text. With text you can imagine the voice in your head however you think it would be most appropriate. When you hear a voice, it's no longer tailored to you. It's just more difficult to get voices right than text,  I think. There's just a lot more variation.

Aquaria is a unique story in the way that it's told, and this all relies on the player. There are some people out there who are too dense to look beyond what is presented to them to what it truly means. To fully get the meaning of some events, you have to look deeper. (ie: Naija finding Li symbolizes an end to Naija's constant loneliness, but some people would only see this as "oh wow she found a boyfrnd")

No, I think the end of loneliness was literally in the dialog. No reading between the lines required there.

Also, while we don't get any build-up to the romance, we do get a flashback that they've met at least briefly before.
If it hadn't been for Li running away when they "first" met suggesting otherwise, there might have been the possibility that they had spent time together.
I wonder if Li meeting her as a little girl while he was in a boat is the reason for him remaining there and diving. (unless he was just stuck there with no alternative. :> )

[delve]

I do think there was some cheesiness in the voice acting. Over-dramatic in places.
I think voices in games are a lot more demanding than text. With text you can imagine the voice in your head however you think it would be most appropriate. When you hear a voice, it's no longer tailored to you. It's just more difficult to get voices right than text,  I think. There's just a lot more variation.

I thought the dramatics were a good fit with the overall style of the game. The entire game is very artistic and striking, it suits the mood to have dramatic somewhat stylized voiceover.

Also iirc the narrative is spoken in first person past tense, in other words Naija is speaking as if recalling from memory a very important event in her history. I think this perspective is lost somewhere at or near the end, I'd have to go play again to confirm that (what a shame!). My point though is that very emotional memories tend to be overdramatized as well.

[Lestaticon]

Well I loved the voice acting!

I've been very happily enjoying all aspects of Aquaria. I'm an old time gamer and I've since added this to my list of classics. It's right up there on my list with The Longest Journey, which has been one of my favorite story and character centric games.

About subtlety and storytelling. I'm a huge fan of the story telling in the tv show Babylon 5. However, a friend of mine, who I consider brilliant and respect greatly thinks the story of B5 is too basic and not very interesting. I completely disagree. I think the story in B5 and Aquaria are similar in the fact it is a mixture of subtleties and feelings you explore and discover using intuition. I'm not explaining this well. I'm just sure there are lots of ideas, feelings, and situations I notice in Aquaria that some others do not. And those things I take away from the game really put the game well above others.

People are just different. Not all have the same perceptions, intuitiveness, and sensibilities. There is no way you can please every personality type out there.

[Nava]

I'm sorry that Aquaria has been too difficult to repeat the process, but aren't you going to get that with ANY game you make?? How is the current game you're working on going to be spared from criticism? Is it because it doesn't have a forum? You could just close the forum.
I don't want to say the issue is irrelevant, just that it's not irreconcilable, and that I think you'll still have to deal with the issue if you keep on the profession of game-making. (I don't know if you have other jobs, like music composition or music playing; and whether they're free from criticism or just of significantly less criticism...)

The heartache and misery he's referring to is more personal than not wanting to deal with criticism.

And re: voice acting. I thought Jenna did a great job; it's many steps above any voice acting I've encountered in other games.

[Zoko]

The voice acting doesn't seem too over-dramatised to me,  seemed to pretty much fit the story.

As to the end of loneliness and reading between the lines, I meant you really have to feel Naija's end of loneliness, not only percept it as something that happens in the game.

[Grahf]

"IMO, Xenogears had a pretty terrible story[/b], and the storytelling was even worse. It even degraded into a novel at the end. (I'm guessing they ran out of time to finish the game properly? They just ended up having large periods of text followed by a single boss or single dungeon)

I enjoyed playing through Xenogears, but I can't for the life of me remember anything about the plot[/b], because it was so convoluted."

Odd that you'd describe something as terrible when you don't remember anything about it! The plot was robust, yes, and it had a lot of intertwining stories, but it was presented clearly, provided enough back story to instill a sense of emotional involvement with the characters and had a coherent flow. I'm surprised you wouldn't be more fond of it considering it has several similarities with your story (A very powerful being with amnesia, two lovers bound by 'fate' to be with each other, the destruction of a 'god', a puppet master controlling a growing power to use for his / her own ends, etc.)

And once again, to reiterate, I wasn't saying "OMG I HATE AQUARIAS STORY LOLOLKEKEKE", I was voicing an opinion not uncommon on this forum, that the story had a lot of holes for parts of games, telegraphed too much in others, and lacked needed back story to instill an emotional interest. Of course though, thats fine. Its a side scroller. SoTN had about as interesting a plot as Commando, I still love them both.

The only reason I voiced this opinion to begin with is that a lot of people were talking the plot up quite a bit. I figured any forum benefits from diversity, so why not contribute?

[Alphasoldier]

I told myself multiple times to not join the discussion, but I'm gonna anyway, to comment on your:

The only reason I voiced this opinion to begin with is that a lot of people were talking the plot up quite a bit. I figured any forum benefits from diversity, so why not contribute?

I personally think you crossed the line when you said: "Where I think Aquaria fell short was in the voice acting (Yes, I know, it was low budget, it just bothered me)", there was really nothing wrong with the voice acting and I think there wouldn't be anyone or anything that could do it any better. The way Jenna narrated everything almost perfectly to every emotion and timing. Not too overemotional and story was put in when needed.
Aquaria is still a game, there has to be gameplay, not scenes with interaction like the oh-so-lacking Kingdom Hearts. The cut scenes and narrating that's in Aquaria is impossible to improve. That'd be my view on that.
Now for you.
So far you've been defending your first post from the start, going in against everyone who says otherwise while slowly changing side, admitting one thing after the other.
No, you're not saying "OMG I HATE AQUARIAS STORY LOLOLKEKEKE", you're saying: "It's an ok game, but I don't really like much about it because it's not my taste, but I thought I'd share my opinion with you guys anyway.". Diversity is okay, but cracking down games is not. So far, all the reasons you gave were not supported by examples or were just plain wrong.

Also, don't crack down the way people say things.

[Alec]

Yeah, its not about criticism, its more about making something intensely personal that costs years of your life and much personal strain and then realizing that it wasn't worth it.

I don't think I'll make anything intensely personal or big in scope anytime soon. I dread having to go through all that again.

Or maybe I will, but not in game form.

[silverflagon]

And that's one of the main reasons why I don't ever want to have to make a sequel.

Noooo!

[Chibi]

Whatever's best for you - do it, Alec. But once you've replenished your energy stores, remember those who played Aquaria devoutly, hanging onto Naija's every word and reveling in the beauty of the game. Those are the people who await the sequel. Thank you for the hope of a return to the waters ... 

[Alphasoldier]

Couldn't agree with you more Chibi.

[Zoko]

Yeah, I agree with the people above me. I don't think the game deserves much criticism about it's voice acting, sure it was mostly just Jenna, but she did a pretty good job with it. I think that the cutscenes and story could use some improvement, they just don't necessarily need it.

And Alec, I think you might just be too stressed out right now, or not in a good mood or something. Maybe you should just relax before taking on something else. And we're not asking you to start making the sequel right now, we just want to see the story continue. All i'm hoping for is that you won't pull a Blizzard and wait twelve years before doing so.

[artstarr]

thanks chibi. i have to say that I'D LOVE A SEQUEL GAME  =)

this game has the look and feel of Ecco for Sega. i love the background, story, music, character, overall design...sequel plz   

[Lenneth]

Some people here are treating the game really unfair, in my oppinion! How can you say the story is anything else than perfect, if someone put so much heart into it? Sure, there are some mysterys, that remain unexplained, but everything that's still open, is open in a good way, so people can fill out the holes with their own imagination. Also I don't with Li's characterisation, it wouldn't make much sense to tell his whole lifestory, because then he would have overshadowed Naija, since we don't know that much about her past, and it would be weird to know more about a partner-character than the main person, right? So it was pretty clever, storytelling-wise, to leave Li as he is. There's not really only one thing that needs to be improved about this game, everything felt right as it is. Audio and Visuals are breathtaking, the Story is really heartwarming and deep, but still doesn't force you to swallow too many impressions at once. Now about the voice acting: It's one of the best I've ever heard! Jenna's voice matches perfectly for Naija's personality, and there wasn't a single flaw in it. All of the emotions sounded really true. Another thing some people didn't seem to like, is how quick the relationship between Li and Naija developed, but just think of it from Naija's view: If you were alone for many years, and never met any other sentient being, would YOU waste time once you finally meet someone, you can spent your life with? Probably not, right? All in all we should really appreciate this piece of art , that Alec and Derek developed. After all those dissapointments from bigger game companys(mostly all games losing their charme and heart, and are merely devices for quick money) I lost all my hopes in the industry. But seeing that there's still someone outside there, making games with their personal feelings inside it, it gave me back my confidence in this still young media. And I'm really thankful to you for that^^

[Align]

Aquaria is a unique story in the way that it's told, and this all relies on the player. There are some people out there who are too dense to look beyond what is presented to them to what it truly means. To fully get the meaning of some events, you have to look deeper. (ie: Naija finding Li symbolizes an end to Naija's constant loneliness, but some people would only see this as "oh wow she found a boyfrnd")

Considering how often Naija talks of being lonely, it's almost impossible to miss - but I don't see how that really changes anything.


Something came to mind though - as it wasn't until I was done with everything else (up to Sunken City) that I went and found Li, it seemed like some sort of climax, which might not have been the intention.

I personally think you crossed the line when you said: "Where I think Aquaria fell short was in the voice acting (Yes, I know, it was low budget, it just bothered me)", there was really nothing wrong with the voice acting and I think there wouldn't be anyone or anything that could do it any better.

Obviously, he disagrees. Opinions, hmm?

The way Jenna narrated everything almost perfectly to every emotion and timing. Not too overemotional and story was put in when needed.

I actually think Naija's voice was fine most of the time, but those small moments combine with the downright awkwardness of Mithalas script (and acting) for a... lessened experience, I guess.

Aquaria is still a game, there has to be gameplay, not scenes with interaction like the oh-so-lacking Kingdom Hearts.

Well, some sort of cutscene is necessary if the developers want to tell their own story rather than let the players make their own.
Holy wall of text, Batman.

How can you say the story is anything else than perfect, if someone put so much heart into it?

What does heart have to do with it? You have to rate by result, not effort.

Also I don't with Li's characterisation, it wouldn't make much sense to tell his whole lifestory, because then he would have overshadowed Naija

There's a middle ground between telling nothing and telling their entire life story. It's hard to feel for someone that you don't know.

There's not really only one thing that needs to be improved about this game

But there's always room for improvement, as any good artist will tell you.

Another thing some people didn't seem to like, is how quick the relationship between Li and Naija developed, but just think of it from Naija's view: If you were alone for many years, and never met any other sentient being, would YOU waste time once you finally meet someone, you can spent your life with?

Not to the point of kissing at first sight. But Naija has an excuse - she met him before, even if she doesn't clearly remember it. And it's still pretty awkward to watch, even if it's realistic.

All in all we should really appreciate this piece of art , that Alec and Derek developed.

And I do.