Steam?

[Zam]

Actually...

[Sfiera]

If Steam were available for Mac, I'd be opposed to using it on an ideological basis (it's not, so I'm opposed to it on a "my computer can't run it" basis). But, like other DRM systems, I have no problem with it being used as long as there are other options. Generally, the more distribution channels, the better, for both producer and consumer.

[Quemaqua]

I certainly never meant to imply that Steam wouldn't be extremely attractive to developers.  Obviously it *is*, which is why so many of them use it.  I just can't stand it as a program and ideological icon.  Would it make sense for Aquaria to be released on Steam?  Absolutely.  But that's the problem - it keeps making sense to many people, more consumers and developers keep jumping on board, and because of that we're going to continue to see an increased movement toward DRM-laden idiocy, toward punishing the consumer and restricting access, toward being forced into internet ties to do things like repeatedly renew authorization keys, etc.  This doesn't bother many people, but I say it should.  It's easy to pass me off as a naysayer with a chip on his shoulder, but I find this to be a single part of a much bigger movement, and I don't think it's going to do the end-user any favors at the end of the day.

[Dodomaster]

Steam is tied to the internet due to al lot of game piracy these days. If it weren't for thousends of people illegally downloading games this kind of measures would'nt be had to taken. And you only need internet on steam to install the game you want. After that you can go in offline mode, and you can have no internet connection at all after that. Also it's a online distribution program and if I  was controlling security I would have chosen for maximum security, internet accounts is one of the best security's these days.

[KingAl]

Dodomaster: The aim of the developer is to maximise sales, not to minimise piracy. However good your DRM is (it'll probably be cracked eventually), if it drives away legit consumers you're up effluent river.

[xander]

I certainly never meant to imply that Steam wouldn't be extremely attractive to developers.  Obviously it *is*, which is why so many of them use it.  I just can't stand it as a program and ideological icon.  Would it make sense for Aquaria to be released on Steam?  Absolutely.  But that's the problem - it keeps making sense to many people, more consumers and developers keep jumping on board, and because of that we're going to continue to see an increased movement toward DRM-laden idiocy, toward punishing the consumer and restricting access, toward being forced into internet ties to do things like repeatedly renew authorization keys, etc.  This doesn't bother many people, but I say it should.  It's easy to pass me off as a naysayer with a chip on his shoulder, but I find this to be a single part of a much bigger movement, and I don't think it's going to do the end-user any favors at the end of the day.

Steam != DRM.  It is quite possible for developers to release games on Steam without DRM.  Darwinia is a prime example.  Your continued insistence that Steam == DRM belies an ignorance of what it is that Steam does, and what developers are capable of doing with Steam.

xander

[Alec]

As far as Aquaria goes, obviously we'll have it on Steam if Valve'll have us. It'll be a great way for us to reach more people, maybe make a better name for indie games and all that good stuff.

Whether or not it has DRM doesn't really matter to me personally. But I'm not the kind of person who worries too much if companies are spying on me. If they steal my homemade porn off my computer, it'll probably just turn me on.

If it does end up having DRM for some reason, people can look up Aquaria, find it on our site, buy our version and thereby give us more money. Yay!

[KingAl]

Yay!

+1.

My bet is that Aquaria will function much the way Darwinia does, anyway - as a standalone program that's merely distributed by Steam - in which case people concerned about DRM can stop their moaning.

Also, there will be a physical version, won't there? Pretty please?

[Alec]

Also, there will be a physical version, won't there? Pretty please?

We want there to be!

But it has to be awesome.

I just got my physical copy of Mr Robot, and was a bit disappointed that it was just a DVD case + CD. (albeit with a nice label) I was expecting at least as cool instruction manual, if not a poster.

For Aquaria, I'd want there to be a soundtrack CD, a crazy Derek Yu art poster, manual, maybe some kind of inflatable plushie. (??) Whatever we can do that is awesome and is still affordable.

But we probably won't start to look into how realistic that is until after the game is done.

We did make some mock up manuals for the IGF that were pretty sweet. (they were done as if they were beat up NES game manual, with fake tearing on the cover) It was kinda pricey. I think Derek might still have some, maybe he can upload some shots for kicks?

[Alec]

Also talked at one point about packaging in some kind of tin. (maybe like the FF12 collector's edition?) That would be uber sweet...

*siiigh*


Must. Finish. Game. First.


 

[Quemaqua]

Steam != DRM.  It is quite possible for developers to release games on Steam without DRM.  Darwinia is a prime example.  Your continued insistence that Steam == DRM belies an ignorance of what it is that Steam does, and what developers are capable of doing with Steam.

And your comments bely your ignorance of all the rights you're slowly giving up.  I'm well aware of what Steam is capable of, and I'm also well aware of the moves it's helping the industry make.  I never said that Steam is strictly a form of DRM, I said it's a crappy service that restricts the use of many of its products which would otherwise be free of said restrictions if the product were purchased elsewhere.  I won't even get into the numerous problems the program has caused me in my time with it, because that would obviously be a waste of my time.  I've said all I need to, I have no desire to say any more.

Case in point, I agree wholeheartedly with Alec.  I was a little disappointed with my copy of Mr. Robot as well, mostly just because I adore Moonpod and want more of their crap to hang on my wall.  I reviewed Starscape and interviewed the guys for the site I wrote for at the time, and I'd have even paid extra for a few added goodies inside the package.

I hope you guys can get a nice retail setup going for Aquaria.  Being a gigantic nerd, I can say without hesitation that a soundtrack CD and Derek art poster would just make me horny.  And maybe you could ship it with a PSP port of Eternal Daughter and I'm O.K.!

 ... hey, it was worth a try.

[Azuu]

shots would be nice, tho if the manual price is a problem, just make a crappy version and a good version. crappy goes with the regular edition and good goes with the holy shit version (and you can get that plushy in there too ill bet ) for 5-10USD more then the reg  . makes sense oui?

[Azuu]

Also talked at one point about packaging in some kind of tin. (maybe like the FF12 collector's edition?) That would be uber sweet...

*siiigh*


Must. Finish. Game. First.


 

just like ff12 and many other games these days (bioshock and a few others come with toys),  you should look into packages
ex.
reg. edit.  20usd (more for shipping and manual if its hardcopy)
special edit. 30usd (its hardcopy comes with the tin case and cd with dev drawings/music. also the tin looks just like the casing on the regular edition's cover)
"Aquatic" or whatever else edition 40usd(people pay 40usd normaly anyways) (same as last but different casing art and comes with poster and toy?)
im not a marketing guy and i dont know if the pricing is right for the extra stuff, but that would be how a mainstream company would do it. Why not see if people will preorder the extra packages before you start buying it?

[Stalfos]

Interesting suggestion/application there!

That should be discussed in a new topic though.

[PHeMoX]

I also agree that using steam would be a good idea mainly the wide range of people and the stats says there are about 3,023,137 unique players per month

Yeah, and the total amount of unique Steam-users is even higher because it consists of all Halflife2 players and then some, because of the activation through Steam of Valve's games. More than enough potential customers I'd say, although those people tend to be FPS loving freaks and not so much casual or indie game lovers, but still ...