Bit Blot Forum
Aquaria => Modding => Topic started by: DavidBeoulve on December 16, 2007, 12:33:25 am
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DESIRE:
I want to either gain access to the LUA files that make the core game run or get the actual game into the editor in order to:
- Make the game easier (either by less damage, more save points, more health, more damage reduction, whatever means is easiest).
- Learn more.
DATA STRUCTURE:
Apparently everything it saved in the giant "data.000" pack file, but I don't know how to unpack it. In Supreme Commander one can just use WinRAR (doesn't work on this, I tried) and whatever you unzip the game uses in place of what is in the pack file. I assume that something similar can be done with Aquaria because I have read that MODs supersede all else. The first hump is just finding the LUA script files so I can examine them and see if there's a few things I can tweak to make my wife and I able to play.
HOW DO I (either one):
- Gain access to the core game's script files to make changes to damage models or the health system.
- Get the core game into the editor.
Thanks so much guys.
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Do you even own the game?
If so, please PM your order info and I won't mind helping you out as much.
Anyways, yeah. I don't know about modding the main game. We could just make an "easy mode" ourselves which would make a lot more sense than copying all the content into a mod.
Also I disagree with your interpretation. Games aren't just to be sat and watched. The interaction is crafted and its also part of the art. Ripping it out without the consideration of the creators is violating the intentions behind it, IMO.
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Well, I initially wanted to do something similar, but I now just went with doing a complete "new" game by itself, instead of remodeling the original to be easier.
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It's an interesting point, and I do feel there's some merit to it. Why did I play so much World of Warcraft? I assure you it wasn't the gameplay. It was fun building a character, but really what I was there for was being able to spend time with friends who live far away, and because I wanted to see the world. It was a cool world with tons of stuff in it, and that's a really big draw. I took thousands of screenshots (same thing with Oblivion -- I have a whole huge photo album of like 1800 shots or something).
That said, I don't agree that the two should be separate. I feel like they should be mingled, which to me is exactly what Aquaria, like many good action/adventure games before it, finds the perfect balance of. It isn't hard as nails, but it's a far cry from "easy", and that makes everything -- and I mean everything from the emotional impact of the story to feelings of achievement to the discovery of new environments and creatures -- so much more meaningful. If you could just swim there, see it, and leave, what would be the point? Challenge, in my opinion, is an inherent facet of what drives the emotional experience in a game. It involves you and stresses you and makes you work for it, which is exactly the thing that books and movies can never do, hence never personally investing you in nearly the same fashion.
That said, I think an easier mode for this would be pretty great. As I've stated, my wife just adores everything from the art to the story and characters, and she's hooked just watching me play, which again lends credence to seeing being a big part of the experience, but she still really wants to play and it frustrates her that she can't because she knows the game will be too difficult for her. But the main experience for the average player should never be compromised, so IMO games that are built to be too easy so that they can accommodate more players will always be gaming failures. If you want to add modes for those who want super-duper hard play and for those who want easier play because they just don't have the coordination or lengthy history of playing games that the rest of us do, that's great! Just make sure you first aim for the best overall experience for the average player (which I think Aquaria does perfectly, as I said).
So yeah, this has gotten lengthier than I intended, but it's an interesting topic. To summarize - I think challenge is an inherent part of games, but if people can build multiple tiers of that challenge for those who simply can't hack it, that's a pretty cool thing. But the base experience needs to be the primary focus, and if push comes to shove and making an "easy" mode is going to somehow detract from balancing the primary mode properly, it should be canned or released in a patch or something instead of wasting development time on it.
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I didn't mean to step on your toes, Alec. You've put years of work into this. I didn't mean games become works of quasi-interactive fiction, either.
Have some kids, get a little older, have less time - but that'd be really sad if that happened to you anytime soon because you wouldn't have created this.
Best thing to do is appreciate people for who they are, because that's how they do the magic they do day to day.
I should have left out all of my reasoning. So stupid of me, I've been on teh interwebs for a while - oh, wait... it's my nature to be open :P bleh, rarely serves me well.
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I don't think the storyline would make much sense if the difficulty was made so that someone could just "sleep" through the game. The game as a whole just wouldn't gel.
An alternate game/mod using some of the same content but a different storyline and gameplay focus makes more sense to me. And I'm quite willing to put some time into helping make that with anyone's who's interested! (its Don Andy's initiative) I think that would be a cool way to let people experience the game who otherwise wouldn't be able to get through it.
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You are one of the principle creators; you'd know best how your work should be experienced. I mean that truthfully. Logically, I'll point out that not everyone (I can tackle the game, my wife can't) can experience it the same way, but that just means it's a game for me, not her, kind of like any game that has a higher difficulty curve, such as, say an FPS. The music and indie dev reading got me expecting something "not hard," so when I handed it to her, I found I was wrong. Not your problem, no game can be all things. Some try, and they pretty much all suck.
I've removed the reasoning in my initial post to remove anyone else's desire to get into a debate.
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Well I don't see what's wrong with having a debate about it. I mean we don't have to agree on that point, I'm just explaining how I see it.
But yeah, I think an easy version would be cool. I just think it should be its own alternate storyline as well so it'll feel more like its own thing. The main game's storyline get's pretty intense and if the gameplay doesn't get intense to match, it'll be kinda weird. So the alternate story could be more chill.
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I realized, upon rumination, that Aquaria strikes the same sort of cord as a game that has never left me: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Now, aside from the rainbow shield, nothing took the difficulty out of that game, and it simply would not be the same without it. You explored, you gained new abilities, you got a neat story, music good enough to listen to away from the game (well, certainly pieces) and 2d sprites that just made you feel at home.
My wife mostly plays Brain Age so it's not like she'll lose any sleep over all of this ;)
And the reason I don't care for debates on teh interwebs is because they generally all occur and end in the same way: people take turns standing on the table yelling and waving their baggage in the air, and then sit back down. Rarely, folks are open, usually, they just feel somehow personally attacked. It's human nature. It's often a case of person A has 12 years of history on the subject and person B comes along with misguided idea, or just a completely different background, that is at direct odds with what person A knows to be true, but you can't fit 12 years of learning in a forum post, and person B, coming from a different culture if not field of education, a different personality type if not different agenda, will usually respond in kind, and then you get persons C, D, E, F & G responding thanks to the magic of teh interwebs.
;)
Me? I decided to learn something. Here, I decided that A) what I posted was inane because of what Alec pointed out. B) That I really should avoid stating reasons for anything, because that's extra stupid of anyone who knows what I stated in the paragraph above. C) I should think about C: SoTN some more and then attack Aquaria again.
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I still don't see what's wrong with trying to have a debate?
I mean if its your opinion that games should be more open and easy for people to get through, that's cool. I'd like to make a game that my Aunt could at least play and not feel threatened by. If I could make a game that would interest my Mom and that she could actually get through, while at the same time also being interesting to me, I'd be a happy dude.
I just don't think Aquaria is that kind of game. (nor was it ever intended to be, for better or for worse)
But again, a mod could be! :)
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I think the ability to put the main game into a mod as a base would be good. For making different difficulty mods and stuff, and also for just doing graphical changes to the game without changing anything else or something.
What I was kinda expecting (not saying that it would be good!) was that any mod would be a mod of the main game, so to make a whole new game with new story you would just have to remove/redraw all the maps and stuff.
But yeah, I would like to be able to make a mod that was the main game, with only minor tweaks.
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Alec: Because interweb debates fail to accomplish anything but time and energy spent. But I agree with your points; I'll follow your lead.
Hiro: Or for just figuring out how to do things. But the general feeling I get is that cracking open the DATA.000 file is something our talented developers do not want (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8029/donotwantbd5.jpg) (humor). It would be immensely useful - you could learn how things are done (especially if a future version of the editor has a "properties" window for each object so you can see what it's settings are more easily), and you could go "Half-Life" on it.
It would allow the community to come up with harder mods, a "more magic" mod or a "less projectiles" mod or a "Zaxby's Culinary Delights" mod or even a casual mod.
But that requires the developers giving up the idea of retaining complete control over what's in that DATA.000 file and saying "Well, once someone opens it up, it's theirs to tinker with. But you know what? That's kind of beautiful, that we've inspired someone to do..." and then just think of all the mods that could come out. Think of how the community would feed itself, and upon itself, and how this single pearl would generate so much. People would talk more, and more sales would follow. It's the Half-Life or Neverwinter Nights effect, both of which had their campaign worlds open to modding, if not at the start (NWN), eventually.
Alec: You'd be a happy dude once you saw how much time folks are willing to put into your game for free. :) I watched it for 3 years with NWN, lived it every week (I have four kids, no such thing a "every day"). Sure there are abrupt and angry idiots out there, but think of it...
If I'm wrong about your stance with the DATA.000 file, that's a happy day for me.
Hopefully I haven't inspired the wrath of The Internets this time. Dave out.
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I don't have a problem with it, its more like I'd rather encourage people to make their own mods because I think ultimately it would be more interesting and worthwhile than hacking the main game.
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I actually disagree to put the main game into a mod, people would change little things of the game and most of the time to make it easier, and that pretty much ruins gameplay. If there should be a easy mode I'd suggest only more health for you and less health for the baddies and maybe even a hard mode, less health for you and more health for the baddies.
And not to shove it all to your side Alec, but I do think you should be the only one making this.
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I find the difficulty fun and challenging and it is half the fun of the game just being able to figure out where to go and what to do and using recipes to restore health so I can make it when I am low on health.
but in terms of marketability I do believe the standard difficulty of the game may be narrowing the market for which this game could reach. By adding what I like to call a casual mode would open this game up to alot more people.
I think the game since it's so pretty appeals to alot of people simply for it's artistic style. Now I know this is not why the game was originally developed to be some pretty thing to look at. I love the way the game was developed but if you want to make more $ hahaha which I think you all deserve and the price $30 including a full amazing game plus the tools to create your own game is a bargain in my opinion.
I think my gf would really like this game is the difficulty was a little easier bc she hates underwater and I love anything to do with water. I was on the swim team for like 13 yrs lived by a lake and went skiing , sailing, jet-skiing, and to the beach all the time. So of course the underwater theme is very sexy to me.
I wasn't expecting her to like the game due to the underwater theme, but even her hate for water couldn't hold her back from commenting how beautiful and fun the game looked. Also she tends to do better on games when they have that easy or casual setting. I think she would love aquaria but at it's current difficulty she'd probably get a lil frustrated.
I know this would require some work , I mean technically you can just change how much damage the attacks take and the health you receive but would it be balanced and would it be too easy or would it still be fun for more casual gamers. So if anything like this ever happens I think aquaria would reach a much larger audience and I said about making money and I know it's not all about that b/c you can see the passion pouring out in every aspect of this game.
Anyways I just love aquaria and I want everyone in the world to be able to experience it :) I'm happy with how it is.
Also I must comment the support is top notch. I can't believe you guys are able to keep up with everything knowing that you must be extremely tired since you just shipped the game.
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I just think we could do that with a separate mod and call it a "mode", but it would also have a somewhat different storyline etc.
Cause the game's story and gameplay gets intense and I don't think the grandma's will be into either of 'em. :)
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Why would it need a different storyline?
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It's the Half-Life or Neverwinter Nights effect, both of which had their campaign worlds open to modding, if not at the start (NWN), eventually.
I thought Valve never released most of the source vmfs of their single player maps. Afaik, modders had to decompile the bsps if they wanted to modify the maps.
I might be wrong though.
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yeah I can see why you may wanna change the story mode and doing it through a mod would be an easy way where you wouldn't even really need to release a patch you just release the mod and that way you have an option for some of the more casual gamers.
The great thing is that you developed the game so that it's very customizable :) yayyyy
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I don't have a problem with it, its more like I'd rather encourage people to make their own mods because I think ultimately it would be more interesting and worthwhile than hacking the main game.
I can see where you're coming from with this. The way I thought it was going to be (with the main game as the defaults for all mods) would make making grapical mods/slight adjustments easy, but doesn't really promote originality. The way it I can see it going with such a system is that it is much harder to make a total conversion mod because you have to reset all the values, redo all the maps etc.
So I respect that you wouldn't want people to be editing the main game rather than making their own.
However, if someone who is just a casual gamer wants to experiance the authentic storyline, maps and atmosphere then it can't really happen without being able to mod the main game. Any recreation wouldn't be perfect...
I see two solutions:
Either the developers make an official easier/harder mode/modification or the main game is hacked/opened up by the dev.s.
It's kinda up to you Alec (and Derek) but I think it would be sad for casual gamers to have to play fan-made remakes rather than getting to play the original game.
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They wouldn't be playing the original game, it wouldn't be the same game because it would have to be simplified for that audience.
I'd rather we created a new version that actually was built for those players than ruining the original one.
I don't think its something you can fix by just adjusting damage values. The game has other things are tricky. (puzzles, strategies, etc) Those would have to be removed or changed as well.
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The main thing I see is that the combat requires a fair degree of quick reactions, button mashing and skill.
Puzzles require thinking.
Some people possess one and not the other, and while you can easily make a (No offense intended) "Grandma Mode" by altering how much damage you take or how much food restores (Difficulty Multiplier and what not) you can't really modify puzzles without modifying the game scripting entirely, so people who just want to experience the action of the game'll pretty much have to do their own thing.
I do, however, think that a kind of "Less Combat-Intensive" mode would be great, but it sadly undermines things like Bosses (Make your shots really powerful, and suddenly big imposing God-Bosses are... Pointless), and that's (Among other reasons) probably why they're not jumping right on board and getting on with making it.
I supposed the inclusion of a "God Mode" cheat would help people who dislike the combat to play through the whole game (As you would a book), but God Mode is one of those things you either love or absolutely despise because as soon as people find out about it nobody will play your game properly ever again :p
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making an easy mode is easy:
up the default damage things do you 20%, lower your shot power 20%, make that default, declare the present game the "easy" mode :)
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making an easy mode is easy:
up the default damage things do you 20%, lower your shot power 20%, make that default, declare the present game the "easy" mode :)
I think it would be pretty naive to expect this to work. I think we'd have to redesign the game from the ground up and actually test it with casual players. Releasing the same game with sliiiightly less damage is not going to open it up to a whole new market, is it?
Is it? :o
Also:
I don't think its something you can fix by just adjusting damage values. The game has other things are tricky. (puzzles, strategies, etc) Those would have to be removed or changed as well.
This still stands. And I'm not just talking about thinking puzzles.
The player can actually dynamically affect the balance of the game through ingredients. If they're already not clever enough to figure that out and exploit it, its just more evidence that the game would have to be rebuilt to appeal to that kind of audience.
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So again, this is why I think a mod would be better.
Derek and I could help work on it.
We could reuse a lot of the content from the main game.
We could build a game that appeals to casual players from the ground up.
We can craft a storyline that will fit better with gameplay that tips more towards puzzles and exploration and less combat or thinking.
(it doesn't make sense to have a game about survival and giant creatures when you can push "A" once to kill them all or not have to fight any of them or have them be total pushovers, or make every puzzle have a blindingly obvious solution. It doesn't make sense to have a dramatic storyline about exploration when you're spoon-feeding your players. etc, etc)
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So again, this is why I think a mod would be better.
Derek and I could help work on it.
We could reuse a lot of the content from the main game.
We could build a game that appeals to casual players from the ground up.
We can craft a storyline that will fit better with gameplay that tips more towards puzzles and exploration and less combat or thinking.
(it doesn't make sense to have a game about survival and giant creatures when you can push "A" once to kill them all or not have to fight any of them or have them be total pushovers, or make every puzzle have a blindingly obvious solution. It doesn't make sense to have a dramatic storyline about exploration when you're spoon-feeding your players. etc, etc)
I'd have so much easier of a time if I had someone who is more capable of designing levels. And I'm not talking about general level design, but the "decorating". I don't know why, but whatever form of art I touch, it fails :p
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For the sake of argument....
Who has friends who are casual gamers, or sisters/girlfriends/wifes/kids etc who could test a simple "easy mode"?
It'd be interesting to see if it would actually work for them to hardcode a damage multiplier / whatever else.
My guess is that if they already found it hard they'd still find it hard, even if they had infinite health. But I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. :)
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For the sake of argument....
Who has sisters/girlfriends/wifes/kids etc who could test a simple "easy mode"?
It'd be interesting to see if it would actually work for them to hardcode a damage multiplier / whatever else.
My guess is that if they already found it hard they'd still find it hard, even if they had infinite health. But I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, :)
I have a brother and sister around the age of 12-14, they both love playing games, but my sister is less of an action based player, and my brother, while often playing hard games, has me helping him through these hard parts ;)
I already showed them Aquaria, but the fact that it's english and really damn hard put them off. They'd still play it if it was "just" english, though xD
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So maybe if damage was cut in half, and maybe something simple and universal like all ingredient drops are doubled?
(like if the game usually spawns one leaf, it would instead spawn two?)
Maybe health drops would heal slightly more as well?
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So maybe if damage was cut in half, and maybe something simple and universal like all ingredient drops are doubled?
(like if the game usually spawns one leaf, it would instead spawn two?)
Maybe health drops would heal slightly more as well?
Hmm, looking bad at it, I think I didn't take the most damage by being hit too hard, but by being hit too often.
Prime example probably King Jelly (although it isn't even shooting). My first few battles with him, I was basically being hit constantly.
And the many homing shots in the game. Like the second form of the last boss. I somehow had a hard time dodging the poisonous projectiles, although they were pretty slow. And once these just hit you once, you already are more busy keeping yourself alive and the poison off.
So, I'd really suggest to decrease the number of projectiles the enemies shoot. Maybe make them slower, or have them reach less far. Sometimes I felt a projectile was chasing me through a whole map xD
Staying with the King Jelly example, I would make him spawn less critters (or make these easier to kill) and have him rotate his beams more slowly and maybe less abrupt.
But yes, all in all, decreasing the damage and increasing ingrident spawning/healing would already lower the difficulty by a BIG amount. Maybe even spawn less ingredients and more "assembled" healing items. I was always having a big deal of ingridients, but in the end, there was just too much stuff I could create with it, of which in most cases I didn't even have an idea what they actually do (as the recipes don't show the effects).
So, I mostly just ended up doing the most basic healing items. Like Leaf/Healing Polutice and maybe a Tough Cake.
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We can't universally decrease the number of projectiles, so that's out of the question.
(for this experiment at least)
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We can't universally decrease the number of projectiles, so that's out of the question.
(for this experiment at least)
Ah sorry, I kinda was expecting this, but I was speaking more along the lines of a theoretical argument ;D
Realistically speaking, I'd go with what I said about the healing stuff. Decrease the overall damage a bit, make healing items heal a tad more (although not THAT much. If you already decrease the damage, additionally increasing health too much would be overkill) and have more already "cooked" healing items spawn.
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have more already "cooked" healing items spawn.
But this would be better solved by showing recipe effects in the recipe menu anyways.
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have more already "cooked" healing items spawn.
But this would be better solved by showing recipe effects in the recipe menu anyways.
Or that, yes ;D
That brings me to an idea, maybe the recipe list could show you if you have enough ingredients to make that specific recipe but either showing it normally (you have enough ingredients) or making it a bit darker (you can't make the item).
That way, you can trim down the process of making a health item in a boss battle, when you can pretty much see directly which health items you can make and which you can't.
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I suppose another thing would be increasing the damage Naija does to enemies across the board?
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Regarding the cooking, it would be nice if you could cook something by just (double) clicking its recipe in your "cook book". :)
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I suppose another thing would be increasing the damage Naija does to enemies across the board?
Hmm, I dunno. If we keep de-buffing everything too much, we end up with mind-numbingly easy.
I think we should keep it at making them weaker instead of her stronger.
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making an easy mode is easy:
up the default damage things do you 20%, lower your shot power 20%, make that default, declare the present game the "easy" mode :)
I think it would be pretty naive to expect this to work. I think we'd have to redesign the game from the ground up and actually test it with casual players. Releasing the same game with sliiiightly less damage is not going to open it up to a whole new market, is it?
missing the point: it was a joke. look at what I said - my suggestion would make the game harder. I was saying, "make the game harder. call that the new default. declare the present version unmodified the 'easy' mode". the proper response is "you're evil, silver".
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Well, what I meant Alec about an easier mode still being the 'original' game (even though it clearly wouldn't be) was that all the maps, placement of events/objects, and all that would still be the same.
So I think the experiment with an official (made by/with you and Derek) easier mode is a good idea for a start at least. >.^
And I still think being able to load the main game into a mod would be cool for small modifications that still run mostly the same game, but say an extra dungeon or something. The way it works now isn't really MODifying the game, it's making expansions or different games with the same engine. I think that's cool, but it would be nice to make modifications too. :)
It's up to you.
PS, anyone but Alec reading that must have felt wierd. :D
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actually, I want to open up data.000 to get my hands on the graphics - hard to put graffiti on the walls without access to the font file :)
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I suppose another thing would be increasing the damage Naija does to enemies across the board?
Hmm, I dunno. If we keep de-buffing everything too much, we end up with mind-numbingly easy.
I think we should keep it at making them weaker instead of her stronger.
Works for Bosses, keep you doing the same amount of damage but take less is better than taking the same damage but wiping them out in only 5 hits. More defense/Less powerful enemies gives you the same experience but less punishment for mistakes
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actually, I want to open up data.000 to get my hands on the graphics - hard to put graffiti on the walls without access to the font file :)
http://aquaria.sfiera.net/wiki/Image:Tile-gui.jpg
You could just "rip" it from the editor ;D
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how does that work? do I get to drop an actual copy of the actual file somewhere? because I don't want to have to go do pixel-replacement to restore the original transparency, because I'll just mess it up :/
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how does that work? do I get to drop an actual copy of the actual file somewhere? because I don't want to have to go do pixel-replacement to restore the original transparency, because I'll just mess it up :/
Hmm, no I don't think you can actually get the file without Alec or Derek giving it to you. What I suggested was merely bringing it up in the editor and copy/pasting/editing it, so you can later reinsert it as your own graphics.
The only thing you can really "get" from the original game so far, are the animations, by going into the Animation Editor, loading up a default animation and then simply saving it.
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On the subject of difficulty: Personally, I'm fine with it as-is, although it certainly wouldn't hurt the games accessibility to have easy and hard modes. Simple things like damage scaling, perhaps slightly more/less aggressive and fast enemies, etc etc.
But that's up to the Bit-Blot folks.
Personally, I would love the ability to crack open the base campaign in the editor, both for learning purposes, but also for the potential to create edited/remixed versions of the campaign.
I'd liken this to the excellent 'SMod' for Half-Life 2. Now, don't get me wrong, I love HL2. It's a classic, but SMod is a fun new take on the old content. It uses the original campaign, but with reworked enemies, placements, new weapons, and a somewhat more vicious sense of humor.
If you let modders choose to stick to the same structure and story, they can often do quite impressive things within the logical context of the game itself.
I'd also like to see some 'expansion' type mods, adding new areas branching off the original game world. Not every mod has to be a new world/level started from scratch. At least during the early days, it's often better to let modders play around with and rework existing content to learn the ropes, rather than throw them into a vast ocean of possibilities and watch them flounder and start projects which will only end up directionless and fizzling out.
Just my thoughts, though. Generally speaking, I like to see as much freedom and power given to modders as possible.
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Actually there's an editor command that lets you type in a string and it'll generate the Aquarian for you. I just wanted to keep it disabled until people had a chance to figure it out themselves. Now that they have, I think I'll add it back in on the next patch.
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Back on the subject of difficulty, I noticed there was talk about having a basic 'you have less/more health, enemies have more/less' deal.
Please don't. While it's a quick and easy route to making the game easier or harder, I've always found it to reek of quick half-measure design.
Personally, I think the best games to do multiple difficulty settings are games by Hideo Kojima (Metal Gear, Zone of the Enders), the Silent Hill games, and the Doom series. Oh, and Ninja Gaiden: Black on the Xbox.
In the case of MGS/ZoE, your choice of difficulty skews the 'rules' of the game more or less in your favour. On the easiest settings in MGS, guards are half-blind, have low attention spans, will overlook things like lockers when searching a room, etc etc. On the highest settings, they're alert, attentive and capable. ZoE did even better. Enemies will behave differently on higher settings. A single 'grunt' enemy will be fodder on a lower setting, but on a higher setting will deliberately hang back near friends and make hit and run attacks, retreating to be repaired if needs be.
No new content, but by changing some behaviour variables, the game feels both fresh AND newly challenging.
Silent Hill gave players two difficulty sets. You pick both the difficulty of combat, and the complexity of puzzles seperately. So someone looking more for an adventure game can play with easy combat (low, weak enemies) and complex puzzles (more pieces, vaguer clues, more complex solutions etc).
And Doom went the 'badass' route. The higher the difficulty setting, the more enemies there were. Pure and simple. Easily done (at least during intial design - harder to add later on), but it's a simple route to providing replay value through multiple difficulties.
NG: Black probably went the most difficult route. On each new difficulty setting, the entire game is 'remixed'. New enemy types, different weapon/item placement, weaker enemies replaced with tougher ones. It meant that each time through, the game felt new AND harder. Always a good thing. It gave the game collosal replay value.
All of these are great ways of doing difficulty scaling. Personally, I'd like to see the MGS/ZoE approach for later updates to Aquaria. If AI variables can be changed, enemies could be made more interestingly dangerous. Pirahnas could move less predictably and faster, or perhaps larger enemy types could have a chance to split into multiple smaller ones on death. Interesting quirks and variants that would keep an experienced player on their toes. Likewise, for lower settings, enemies could generally behave more passively. React a little slower, not 'aggro' until the player is closer. All that jazz.
But this is just my thoughts. I'd love to see some of these elements added by either Bit-Blot or modders.
However, one thing I'd be 110% behind is the idea of new official/semi-official expansion campaigns, as brought up by Alec. A new story, with gameplay shifted more towards story/exporation/puzzling/action/whatever. I'd gladly pay £5-10 for another full campaign with a fresh angle, even if it reused a lot of content from the base game.
While I'm happy with the campaign as it is, I have a friend who was almost scared off the game once she found the Energy form - the whole game got a little too actiony for her tastes, and she mentioned that she didn't really start having fun again until she found the Fish form and was able to use it to avoid combat. Some folks just want a huge underwater world to explore. Others want a world full of fishy-flavoured death lasers and energy shots. I'd love to see a campaign in that vein myself, but I'm a bit of a hardcase when it comes to games.
Whatever Bit-Blot or the mod community come up with, I'm eagerly awaiting the results with bated breath.
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In all our haste to open the main game, lets not forget that the expansion ability of the current modding system is great. Maybe not at first, but more experianced modders would find it better.
Personally if I ever get any good I want to make an expansion/'sequal' that relies more on ground based movement. There would be a series of islands with caves all through them, and the caves would be partly under the water and partly out of it. That type of thing can be made well with the mod system we have.
And what was that Alec about a command to generate 'The Aquarian"? What is the aquarian? Is that the main game's maps or something?
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And what was that Alec about a command to generate 'The Aquarian"? What is the aquarian? Is that the main game's maps or something?
He is talking about the Aquarian script you see throughout the game (also in the main menu before it fades to regular English letters).
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However, one thing I'd be 110% behind is the idea of new official/semi-official expansion campaigns, as brought up by Alec. A new story, with gameplay shifted more towards story/exporation/puzzling/action/whatever. I'd gladly pay £5-10 for another full campaign with a fresh angle, even if it reused a lot of content from the base game
This is more or less what the project Aquaria Adventure is about isn't it? Shift out the action orientated parts of Aquaria into a more puzzle/exploration/ambient sort of thing - Would appeal to a lot of people too
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Speaking for us modders working on aquaria, will we be granted access to an unpacked form of the data.000 001 etc files sometime here in the future? It really would speed up the process of learning how to implement the lua scripts that are in the game currently and also help with creating new ones. Plus it would be nice to get access to all that wonderful artwork that Derek has put a lot of time into. I suppose a big reason this hasn't happened yet is because of the contents of music and the soon to be released OST correct? Modding is getting pretty frustrating with the current version. Looking forward to the next release!! I can't wait till it the release for the mac is out of the way so I don't have to wait so damn long. :/
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I'm not surprised that some just like the imersion and with some added puzzles, but for me the wonderful balance of all three in Aquaria is just right, I would miss the action if it were removed and the same with the puzzles and the calm areas. After a big fight with OP the calmer waters are a balm to the soul lol
Whoops please pass nothing happenning here ladies and gentlemen, just a crazy woman forgetting to check the dates :-[
Thank you DM for being gentle with your heads up :-*
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Silver, those posts are old, this is in regards as to getting more information on scripting and the original artwork. I could care less for an easier version. I think the game is just right in aspect of the game. Just hurting in the mod support, imo.
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Silver, those posts are old, this is in regards as to getting more information on scripting and the original artwork. I could care less for an easier version. I think the game is just right in aspect of the game. Just hurting in the mod support, imo.
Thank you DM sorry about that, I've put a strike through it so everyone should know that it's irelivant ::)
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No worries. ....*slap* lol
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No worries. ....*slap* lol
Ouch I deserved that one tyhanks DM :p lol
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Is it me, or is the forum getting a little slap-happy? Lol. ;D
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Is it me, or is the forum getting a little slap-happy? Lol. ;D
*SLAP!* ...shuh. :D
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I wonder why? but yes for now untill we get bored or sore depending on what occurs first ::) lol
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I know this is late, but I agree that just reducing damage taken and increasing damage inflicted and increasing ingredient drops and healing power wouldn't make the game casual. If I were to recommend strategies for making the game casual, here are a few suggestions:
- Fewer enemies. Just removing a few here and there so that the world is less populated with them. Replace them with more friendly creatures which don't harm you, but just swim around and add to the atmosphere of the game.
- Hints for the bosses. Perhaps when the player dies, a hint on how to kill the boss would appear. These hints could get gradually more specific. Another possibility is to reduce the HP of the bosses each time the player tries and fails to kill it. After enough tries, its HP might be only half or a third of what it would be normally.
I think those two alone would do it. You wouldn't need to tweak anything numerically, and it'd make the game much more casual-friendly.
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Why?
I mean I love it as it is and I can handle all the enemies just fine and I am 60 next year, and I am not the fitest and most dexterous person playing this game either.. I would even like yet another boss or two added.. Just not another Simple Simon boss unless they make him a little less challenging with 6 notes instead of 8! :o
Go on play the game as it is then play it again you will soon find that you will think the same as a few more of us here, I even go looking for the 'seadragons' and those weird spawning creatures in the Kelp forrest what they drop at times makes the fun really worth it :D
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I don't think it's just about dexterity, it's also about frustration level. Some people get easily frustrated, others don't, and I think that's the big difference between hardcore and casual gamers -- the casual ones are the ones who get easily frustrated, which prevents them from enjoying hardcore games, which kind of rely on frustration (dying, learning, and trying again) as a game mechanic.
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I supose so but I haven't died that much in Quaria but I supose that if a game catches my atention then I will play it through no matter what.
I am an avid fan of escape the room games and most I will play until I solve but just lately there seem to be a lot of them coming out with too much text and after I have clicked continue for the umpteenth time I close the screen and I won't go back to finish it. I want to play the game!!! ::)
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I supose so but I haven't died that much in Quaria but I supose that if a game catches my atention then I will play it through no matter what.
feelin a bit cozy with 'quaria there, sort of on nick name basis with 'quar' huh, maybe bff's with ol AQ hmm?
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;D ROFLMAO
yeah, ol' 'quar might get a little P.O.'d
Just pullin' ya leg, Silver ;)
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I supose so but I haven't died that much in Quaria but I supose that if a game catches my atention then I will play it through no matter what.
feelin a bit cozy with 'quaria there, sort of on nick name basis with 'quar' huh, maybe bff's with ol AQ hmm?
::) ROTFLMSO!
I do have my moments with it inkblob. enough that I can miss-spell it's name from time to time but it might kill me today for taking that liberty lol
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;D ROFLMAO
yeah, ol' 'quar might get a little P.O.'d
Just pullin' ya leg, Silver ;)
I can take it Chibi and the place would be a lot poorer without a bit of teasing from time to time hey? ;D :D
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I supose so but I haven't died that much in Quaria but I supose that if a game catches my atention then I will play it through no matter what.
feelin a bit cozy with 'quaria there, sort of on nick name basis with 'quar' huh, maybe bff's with ol AQ hmm?
::) ROTFLMSO!
I do have my moments with it inkblob. enough that I can miss-spell it's name from time to time but it might kill me today for taking that liberty lol
it sounds best if you say my facetious comment in Stewie from Family Guy's voice ;)
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I just had the weirdest idea: photoshopping Derek's face to look like Stewie and Alec's to look like Brian. Just a crazy thought. ;D
Wow. That scares me when I reread it. :D :(
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Sorry Inkblob I don't mean to make your comment fall flat but I don't know this Family guy because I don't have a tv, I got rid of it 10 years or more ago. I was just not watching it and that meant that I was wasting about £600 a year, I seldom miss it at all unless there is a good Scifi series on such as Dr Who.
Sorry Chibi I just don't understand the humur at all :-[
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np sf. it's a pop culture reference and never expect everyone to get everyone. I turned off our cable as well except that I dl all our tv. our own schedule, commercial free and basically hdtv. if you are ever inclined, youtube has clips of most everything, and when I'm not sure about a reference, checking there or wikipedia generally clears up my knowledge gap.
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I've just been watching a few cartoons in You Tube while I ate my dinner so I am not totally divorced from the medium I am just picky and I refuse to pay the high cost for only the 5% that I was actually watching. I will look it up sometime 'If' I remember inkblob ;D