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Author Topic: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier  (Read 63656 times)

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Offline Alec

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2007, 07:44:06 pm »
I just think we could do that with a separate mod and call it a "mode", but it would also have a somewhat different storyline etc.

Cause the game's story and gameplay gets intense and I don't think the grandma's will be into either of 'em. :)

Offline Alphasoldier

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2007, 08:11:56 pm »
Why would it need a different storyline?
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Offline Dozin

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2007, 08:54:53 pm »
It's the Half-Life or Neverwinter Nights effect, both of which had their campaign worlds open to modding, if not at the start (NWN), eventually.

I thought Valve never released most of the source vmfs of their single player maps. Afaik, modders had to decompile the bsps if they wanted to modify the maps.

I might be wrong though.

Offline barret232hxc

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2007, 09:33:52 pm »
yeah I can see why you may wanna change the story mode and doing it through a mod would be an easy way where you wouldn't even really need to release a patch you just release the mod and that way you have an option for some of the more casual gamers.

The great thing is that you developed the game so that it's very customizable :) yayyyy

Offline Hiro

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2007, 07:39:39 am »
I don't have a problem with it, its more like I'd rather encourage people to make their own mods because I think ultimately it would be more interesting and worthwhile than hacking the main game.
I can see where you're coming from with this. The way I thought it was going to be (with the main game as the defaults for all mods) would make making grapical mods/slight adjustments easy, but doesn't really promote originality. The way it I can see it going with such a system is that it is much harder to make a total conversion mod because you have to reset all the values, redo all the maps etc.
So I respect that you wouldn't want people to be editing the main game rather than making their own.

However, if someone who is just a casual gamer wants to experiance the authentic storyline, maps and atmosphere then it can't really happen without being able to mod the main game. Any recreation wouldn't be perfect...

I see two solutions:
Either the developers make an official easier/harder mode/modification or the main game is hacked/opened up by the dev.s.

It's kinda up to you Alec (and Derek) but I think it would be sad for casual gamers to have to play fan-made remakes rather than getting to play the original game.
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Offline Alec

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2007, 05:39:22 pm »
They wouldn't be playing the original game, it wouldn't be the same game because it would have to be simplified for that audience.

I'd rather we created a new version that actually was built for those players than ruining the original one.

I don't think its something you can fix by just adjusting damage values. The game has other things are tricky. (puzzles, strategies, etc) Those would have to be removed or changed as well.

Offline DragonXVI

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2007, 06:02:58 pm »
The main thing I see is that the combat requires a fair degree of quick reactions, button mashing and skill.

Puzzles require thinking.

Some people possess one and not the other, and while you can easily make a (No offense intended) "Grandma Mode" by altering how much damage you take or how much food restores (Difficulty Multiplier and what not) you can't really modify puzzles without modifying the game scripting entirely, so people who just want to experience the action of the game'll pretty much have to do their own thing.

I do, however, think that a kind of "Less Combat-Intensive" mode would be great, but it sadly undermines things like Bosses (Make your shots really powerful, and suddenly big imposing God-Bosses are... Pointless), and that's (Among other reasons) probably why they're not jumping right on board and getting on with making it.

I supposed the inclusion of a "God Mode" cheat would help people who dislike the combat to play through the whole game (As you would a book), but God Mode is one of those things you either love or absolutely despise because as soon as people find out about it nobody will play your game properly ever again :p
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Offline silverkitty

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2007, 06:42:27 pm »
making an easy mode is easy:
up the default damage things do you 20%, lower your shot power 20%, make that default, declare the present game the "easy" mode :)

Offline Alec

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2007, 09:55:23 pm »
making an easy mode is easy:
up the default damage things do you 20%, lower your shot power 20%, make that default, declare the present game the "easy" mode :)

I think it would be pretty naive to expect this to work. I think we'd have to redesign the game from the ground up and actually test it with casual players. Releasing the same game with sliiiightly less damage is not going to open it up to a whole new market, is it?

Is it? :o

Also:

I don't think its something you can fix by just adjusting damage values. The game has other things are tricky. (puzzles, strategies, etc) Those would have to be removed or changed as well.

This still stands. And I'm not just talking about thinking puzzles.

The player can actually dynamically affect the balance of the game through ingredients. If they're already not clever enough to figure that out and exploit it, its just more evidence that the game would have to be rebuilt to appeal to that kind of audience.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 10:45:04 pm by Alec »

Offline Alec

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2007, 10:04:17 pm »
So again, this is why I think a mod would be better.

Derek and I could help work on it.

We could reuse a lot of the content from the main game.

We could build a game that appeals to casual players from the ground up.

We can craft a storyline that will fit better with gameplay that tips more towards puzzles and exploration and less combat or thinking.


(it doesn't make sense to have a game about survival and giant creatures when you can push "A" once to kill them all or not have to fight any of them or have them be total pushovers, or make every puzzle have a blindingly obvious solution. It doesn't make sense to have a dramatic storyline about exploration when you're spoon-feeding your players. etc, etc)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 10:06:12 pm by Alec »

Offline Don Andy

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2007, 10:14:29 pm »
So again, this is why I think a mod would be better.

Derek and I could help work on it.

We could reuse a lot of the content from the main game.

We could build a game that appeals to casual players from the ground up.

We can craft a storyline that will fit better with gameplay that tips more towards puzzles and exploration and less combat or thinking.


(it doesn't make sense to have a game about survival and giant creatures when you can push "A" once to kill them all or not have to fight any of them or have them be total pushovers, or make every puzzle have a blindingly obvious solution. It doesn't make sense to have a dramatic storyline about exploration when you're spoon-feeding your players. etc, etc)

I'd have so much easier of a time if I had someone who is more capable of designing levels. And I'm not talking about general level design, but the "decorating". I don't know why, but whatever form of art I touch, it fails :p

Offline Alec

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2007, 10:38:20 pm »
For the sake of argument....

Who has friends who are casual gamers, or sisters/girlfriends/wifes/kids etc who could test a simple "easy mode"?

It'd be interesting to see if it would actually work for them to hardcode a damage multiplier / whatever else.

My guess is that if they already found it hard they'd still find it hard, even if they had infinite health. But I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. :)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 10:44:00 pm by Alec »

Offline Don Andy

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2007, 10:44:09 pm »
For the sake of argument....

Who has sisters/girlfriends/wifes/kids etc who could test a simple "easy mode"?

It'd be interesting to see if it would actually work for them to hardcode a damage multiplier / whatever else.

My guess is that if they already found it hard they'd still find it hard, even if they had infinite health. But I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, :)
I have a brother and sister around the age of 12-14, they both love playing games, but my sister is less of an action based player, and my brother, while often playing hard games, has me helping him through these hard parts ;)
I already showed them Aquaria, but the fact that it's english and really damn hard put them off. They'd still play it if it was "just" english, though xD

Offline Alec

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2007, 10:47:14 pm »
So maybe if damage was cut in half, and maybe something simple and universal like all ingredient drops are doubled?
(like if the game usually spawns one leaf, it would instead spawn two?)

Maybe health drops would heal slightly more as well?

Offline Don Andy

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Re: Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2007, 11:03:30 pm »
So maybe if damage was cut in half, and maybe something simple and universal like all ingredient drops are doubled?
(like if the game usually spawns one leaf, it would instead spawn two?)

Maybe health drops would heal slightly more as well?
Hmm, looking bad at it, I think I didn't take the most damage by being hit too hard, but by being hit too often.
Prime example probably King Jelly (although it isn't even shooting). My first few battles with him, I was basically being hit constantly.
And the many homing shots in the game. Like the second form of the last boss. I somehow had a hard time dodging the poisonous projectiles, although they were pretty slow. And once these just hit you once, you already are more busy keeping yourself alive and the poison off.
So, I'd really suggest to decrease the number of projectiles the enemies shoot. Maybe make them slower, or have them reach less far. Sometimes I felt a projectile was chasing me through a whole map xD
Staying with the King Jelly example, I would make him spawn less critters (or make these easier to kill) and have him rotate his beams more slowly and maybe less abrupt.

But yes, all in all, decreasing the damage and increasing ingrident spawning/healing would already lower the difficulty by a BIG amount. Maybe even spawn less ingredients and more "assembled" healing items. I was always having a big deal of ingridients, but in the end, there was just too much stuff I could create with it, of which in most cases I didn't even have an idea what they actually do (as the recipes don't show the effects).
So, I mostly just ended up doing the most basic healing items. Like Leaf/Healing Polutice and maybe a Tough Cake.