Bit Blot Forum
Aquaria => General => Topic started by: tounces on January 18, 2011, 01:59:28 am
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So, now that Aquaria is open source(or has been for awhile now), does that mean that any developer who wanted to could now make Aquaria 2?
Considering someone made a very in-depth prequel for Aquaria already...
Was a storyline for Aquaria 2 already developed, considering how Aquaria 1 ended?
I only wish I had the skills needed to do this myself.
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That's actually an inspired idea.
Granted, it could be difficult, but I wonder...maybe Alec would cooperate on working out a story and music if someone else worked on the coding and artwork, which I imagine would be long and time consuming. Maybe they could even market it as a separate game. I know that Sindhi and Yogoda are working on a truly epic mod right now...if Alec gave his blessings for the game to be released commercially, maybe they could actually make some money off it...but now I'm looking too far into the future.
I hope others give this thread a look, because this may be where Aquaria 2 lies. In the hands of a few intrepid fans.
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Okay - I'm a little ignorant when it comes to copywrites, trademarks, etc, but isn't releasing the source code pretty much an invitation to do whatever you want with the game? IE, release it commercially or whatever? I assume it wouldn't be such a big deal if it wasn't significant in some way.
Also, it seems to me Aquaria 2 would take less work than Aquaria 1...couldn't you use a lot of the same mechanics, creatures, etc in the second game as well? Except maybe you could add a few more simple mechanics for the land and/or flight based portion of it(since he was last seen in a flying boat, it makes sense for the game to add more land element).
Considering how advanced the mods already are, I don't care really, I just want more Aquaria :P
I wish Alec hadn't burned out on it from the criticism. Aquaria is basically art, and you can't create art without expecting art critics to fling shit at it regardless of how good it is. Sure, it's not perfect, it's probably really freaking hard to perfect a game with such a small team of testers(since testers weed out the little stuff yes?), but the overall game is incredible.
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Okay - I'm a little ignorant when it comes to copywrites, trademarks, etc, but isn't releasing the source code pretty much an invitation to do whatever you want with the game? IE, release it commercially or whatever?
Keep in mind that the engine is open source, but not the intellectual property... nor the graphics, music and other media that went into the game. However, there is nothing stopping anyone from working on an "Aquaria 2" mod. That's pretty much the only way it will happen. I'm not saying that you can't charge money for a mod though, but it has to start somewhere and somehow... and a mod the most viable solution.
Even though I thought Aquaria was a masterpiece... it was the work of Alec and Derek that made it what it was. It's going to take a lot of effort, time, and talent... and displine to make a worthy sequel that follows in the footsteps and builds upon the original. I'd recommend reading old developer interviews and stories of Aquaria's early beginnings. When I had it in my head to work on a mod, I found so much information in those interviews about pacing and keeping the game in motion as the story unfolded, and such. Aquaria is a unique experience that it requires a bit of research to appreciate the intricacies of the design decisions.
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Actually it has always been a hope of mine that the fans would get together and make Aquaria 2, with Alec's blessing... and our mod was supposed to be a continuation of the game after Naija and Li move to another location far from Mia to raise their family and explore new realms and fight even more difficult bosses... in hopes that we could inspire a real sequel. And we haven't even finished our mod yet...but I for one would also like to see Mia get her vicious manipulating power-hungry little ass thoroughly kicked. I even toyed with the idea of having a subdued mind-altered Mia be the nanny for the kids in the opening scenes of our mod, but Yogoda convinced me that Mia was unstoppable and it was better to hide from her than confront her... at least in a mod....
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Actually it has always been a hope of mine that the fans would get together and make Aquaria 2, with Alec's blessing... and our mod was supposed to be a continuation of the game after Naija and Li move to another location far from Mia to raise their family and explore new realms and fight even more difficult bosses... in hopes that we could inspire a real sequel. And we haven't even finished our mod yet...but I for one would also like to see Mia get her vicious manipulating power-hungry little ass thoroughly kicked. I even toyed with the idea of having a subdued mind-altered Mia be the nanny for the kids in the opening scenes of our mod, but Yogoda convinced me that Mia was unstoppable and it was better to hide from her than confront her... at least in a mod....
You know, on that subject I always wondered about Mia. There were actually some indications that, if interpreted correctly, she's actually like a split personality from Naija. Think about it, only Naija sees her, she has dreams when she's present, visions more like, and while the Creator admits to making her, no one in the entire game actually sees Mia besides Naija...and Naija's own desire for adventure could have invented an excuse for her to go off on a new quest. Granted, it does require some suspension of disbelief(not even I thought of it like this until a few weeks ago) but it's an interesting premise.
Also, I bet that if a sequel was made and Alec and Derek were involved, Mia wouldn't be a horrifying monster...she'd be like the Creator to an extent. Evil, but sympathetic, driven into a corner from being on the run and not knowing how to be a mom or grand mom. Maybe all she needs is a hug from Lucien and Naija.
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Haha, I've seen Fight Club as well!
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I didn't get the impression that Alec burned out from criticism, as tounces mentioned. He's still making games, after all. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Derek wanted a break from Aquaria, given all of the work that it required. Based on what Alec has written, it seems that he is open to making a second Aquaria, but that Derek may be hesitant to embark on another project with him.
Regardless, I don't get the impression that making a sequel would be as simple as making new art, designing new levels, and furthering the storyline. Naija could still be the main character, but it seemed as if her son would be the protagonist in the sequel. Even if Naija were the main character, the ending seems to indicate that much of the story might take place above water. That could potentially require a different control scheme - it wouldn't be much fun if we were forced to hop around on land for much of the game, would it?
I may be underestimating what the modders are capable of, but I'd imagine that it would take a lot more work than people seem to indicate here.
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My impression is that Alec and Derek will not be working together again; too many creative differences. For evidence look at the projects both are working on now; from what I can tell Derek is all about fighting type games and Alec is still working on motivation, emotions, ethics, and our spiritual nature.
If what we need is the ability for Naija and others to move above ground, we already have that in our Magic of Aquaria mod. Yogoda has made Naija able to walk, run, climb, and fly. I can't think of anything else she or Lucien would need! That is why it has been so hard to find someone to replace him in finishing our mod; I don't know of anyone who can do what he does with scripting. He told me yesterday he will help again with the mod.
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If what we need is the ability for Naija and others to move above ground, we already have that in our Magic of Aquaria mod. Yogoda has made Naija able to walk, run, climb, and fly. I can't think of anything else she or Lucien would need! That is why it has been so hard to find someone to replace him in finishing our mod; I don't know of anyone who can do what he does with scripting. He told me yesterday he will help again with the mod.
I'm curious to see how the land-based movement works in the mod. Is that something we can download and check out? Initially, I wanted to make a mod with both underwater and land-based parts. However, I had no intention of offering challenges above water though. Just having that ability to walk around inside an underwater craft or something to help make the world feel more engaging.
Recently, I thought about making a mod that's in outer space. Maybe exploring an ancient alien derelict space craft or the guts of an asteroid mining facility with a jet-pack of sorts in zero-gravity would work well.
Regardless, I don't get the impression that making a sequel would be as simple as making new art, designing new levels, and furthering the storyline.
Personally, I don't see a need for a completely different gaming experience. Then again, our ideas for a sequel may differ. I'd let the story unfold a bit(-blot!) and bring it back underwater for the duration of the game. I'd keep the engine as is, honestly, and let content creation be the only development struggle.
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About playing the above ground stuff in our mod: The Magic of Aquaria mod is not done, and the above-ground abilities happen later in the game; we are close to being done with the first half. I am also wanting to take Naija into space; I got permission to use Don Goldman's wonderful astrophotos of galaxies and nebulae in our mod, with a credit of course. We used his photo as a background in the title shot and the Cave of Creation (see the photobucket site; link in the mod forum of our Magic of Aquaria thread. Also put a pic of Naija flying in a special cloud map with rocks floating like they do in Avatar near the end of the album). The only problems we had were if you don't hit the rocks just right, she doesn't start walking, but does a tuck and roll in the air. I guess that wouldn't matter if she's flying in space; we wouldn't have her land on tiny asteroids. We used the forest maps (there are three, the last one being an homage to the Pandora forest at night in Avatar) for her to climb and walk, with multiple parallax layers so she can walk behind things while the background moves behind her at varying speeds. I suppose we could do a Fraps recording... Yogoda was in favor of keeping as much as possible to ourselves because some fans (like Alphasoldier) wanted to be surprised, so we have not told everyone about all the bosses or offered recordings of boss fights we have done using hair animation instead of bones (for more realism and detail). I don't know if this has changed. If there is anyone out there who is good at creative animation, we could use the help. So far I haven't seen anything in 2D indie games like what Yogoda can do... so I hope he gets inspired to finish the mod soon!
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Just finished checking on the Magic of Aquaria stuff on photobucket. The flying seems like a really interesting idea, kind of like the game Cloud, but I wonder how space would work. Naija...in the future! Also, the boss teaser makes me impatient for a release of even half the game.
YOGODA! We miss you! In all seriousness though, I do write for a small online magazine. If you think it might help getting the word out, I could try and do an article on the modding community here. There's plenty do discuss with Beauty, Sacrifice, Angry Li, and of course, Magic, but there's no telling whether or not it would get blocked by the editors(they're an odd lot.) Still, if I could use some of the screen shots, maybe people would get excited by the art and check out the main game too.
If more people play Aquaria, the chance of a possible sequel, fame, fortune, and all that, does increase, albeit little by little.
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You are welcome to pull any of the Magic screenshots on our photobucket site for use in an article. I am in favor of anything that would publicize Aquaria and the ability of fans to make mods with the editing tools provided by the creators. Send a PM to Yogoda; I'm sure he would allow screenshots from Beauty of Aquaria and Angry Li. Maybe we will have another mod if Danger Mouse has the time; I have played what he has so far and it is great; I stole some ideas for decorating the Urchin Cave in Magic from him. Glad to have you back, Danger Mouse!!!
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If someone is making Aquaria 2 Id be glad to be part of it.
Have some ideas and Im a hard worker, :P
Ill be looking forward Aquaria 2...
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Seems like more and more people are streaming in who'd like to see a sequel. =D
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Count me in! I'd love to see an Aquaria 2 mod. I'd also love to help out anyone whose serious about going ahead on this. Maybe not with moding-- it's not really my thing. But perhaps in terms of art design, story design, dialogue writing-- stuff on the creative end if anyone needs it.
I rather like Nightmareshadow's suggestion that Mia could be a figment of Naija's imagination. Who knows the extent of Naija's own powers? Maybe she created Mia from her own dark desires and need for adventure. There is the problem that the Creator refers to Mia directly, but I'm sure we could come up with a plausible explanation for that. Any modders interested in pursuing that idea?
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I'm fairly sure it wouldn't work, seeing that if Mia was the figment of Naija, then the creator made Naija, who would most likely have made her incapable of killing him. Or so, that was the case with Mia.
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Count me in! I'd love to see an Aquaria 2 mod. I'd also love to help out anyone whose serious about going ahead on this. Maybe not with moding-- it's not really my thing. But perhaps in terms of art design, story design, dialogue writing-- stuff on the creative end if anyone needs it.
You should post some samples of your work. Or make a thread about your ideas for an Aquaria 2 mod. It might help get the ball rolling faster.
I rather like Nightmareshadow's suggestion that Mia could be a figment of Naija's imagination. Who knows the extent of Naija's own powers? Maybe she created Mia from her own dark desires and need for adventure. There is the problem that the Creator refers to Mia directly, but I'm sure we could come up with a plausible explanation for that. Any modders interested in pursuing that idea?
I never got the impression that Naija was or ever would be mentally compromised. I like the idea that Naija may have unknowingly created Mia; her version of Mia, that is. As you say, her powers are not fully explained. Then maybe the Mia that the Creator refers to is someone else. Then Naija's Mia and the real Mia could meet at a Starbucks and hash shit out. It's been a while since I played the game though, and Alphasoldier seems to think it might conflict with established facts, but maybe it's worth exploring further.
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Actually, I do have a couple of works posted in the fanart section.
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Count me in! I'd love to see an Aquaria 2 mod. I'd also love to help out anyone whose serious about going ahead on this. Maybe not with moding-- it's not really my thing. But perhaps in terms of art design, story design, dialogue writing-- stuff on the creative end if anyone needs it.
You should post some samples of your work. Or make a thread about your ideas for an Aquaria 2 mod. It might help get the ball rolling faster.
I rather like Nightmareshadow's suggestion that Mia could be a figment of Naija's imagination. Who knows the extent of Naija's own powers? Maybe she created Mia from her own dark desires and need for adventure. There is the problem that the Creator refers to Mia directly, but I'm sure we could come up with a plausible explanation for that. Any modders interested in pursuing that idea?
I never got the impression that Naija was or ever would be mentally compromised. I like the idea that Naija may have unknowingly created Mia; her version of Mia, that is. As you say, her powers are not fully explained. Then maybe the Mia that the Creator refers to is someone else. Then Naija's Mia and the real Mia could meet at a Starbucks and hash shit out. It's been a while since I played the game though, and Alphasoldier seems to think it might conflict with established facts, but maybe it's worth exploring further.
I kind of wanted to think that maybe Mia, the real Mia, the Mia that the Creator did create, since we see her face pretty clearly on the long wall, raised Naija as any mother would, trying to protect her and give her a good life. Think about it, maybe she wiped Naija's memory to keep her away from the Creator so she wouldn't need to live in fear. Then the real Mia dies and Naija's latent power manifests itself as the dark figure, urging Naija on with promises of power and adventure. To rationalize it all, Naija turns the dark figure into a new version of Mia, since she couldn't cope with killing the little boy. Then, Naija under her new Mia's control goes out and has more crazy adventures on the final frontier...LAND!
Anyway, it's just a thought I had. Not sure if I like the idea personally, since it would disregard Aquaria Sacrifice, which I did enjoy, even if it was a little...weird and out of place in the Aquaria universe(mainly things like the jabbering, crazy Lumerian.)
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Ah... I got messed up with who Mia was. I haven't played the game in quite a while and for some reason thought that she was Naija's daughter. I think I should go play the game again. ::)
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I kind of wanted to think that maybe Mia, the real Mia, the Mia that the Creator did create, since we see her face pretty clearly on the long wall, raised Naija as any mother would, trying to protect her and give her a good life. Think about it, maybe she wiped Naija's memory to keep her away from the Creator so she wouldn't need to live in fear. Then the real Mia dies and Naija's latent power manifests itself as the dark figure, urging Naija on with promises of power and adventure. To rationalize it all, Naija turns the dark figure into a new version of Mia, since she couldn't cope with killing the little boy. Then, Naija under her new Mia's control goes out and has more crazy adventures on the final frontier...LAND!
Anyway, it's just a thought I had. Not sure if I like the idea personally, since it would disregard Aquaria Sacrifice, which I did enjoy, even if it was a little...weird and out of place in the Aquaria universe(mainly things like the jabbering, crazy Lumerian.)
Only thing wrong with this, is that Mia was the one who got the ball rolling with Naija. As in, her shadow made her come out of her usual place. Why would Mia, the one who wanted to protect her daughter, appear as a shadow that would take Naija into danger? Even IF she's a manifestation of Naija's mind... it just doesn't make sense, sorry.
Now if it were an action of the creator to get Naija out of her cave I'd say yeah, Mia could be imaginary.
Oh and Sacrifice is still a fanmod, no matter how well it's worked out. :3
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As far as ideas for a sequel go, I have thought of a couple ideas (like everyone else I'm sure).
I imagine it would be primarily Lucien's quest to locate his mother. Li would show up too, possibly as a gadgeteer/advisor who gives you important information about the world, along with mechanical gadgets to help you along. You'd have to include a major female character too, of course, since one of the biggest strengths of Aquaria is its female hero. I'd suggest Lucien's girlfriend (let's call her-- I don't know-- Nani, for now). I't'd be kind of neat to make her the bruiser of the game while Lucien is the more cerebral, gadget-using part of the team.
Mainly though, I like to think about what kind of levels you could put in a new game. The underwater world was the biggest draw for me-- particularly the Kelp Forest and the Abyss. But there's many, many more places a new game could go, such as:
MANGROVE FOREST: Complete with big, arcing aerial roots to climb on. Creatures would include: Mimic octopi (that could change into facsimiles of other creatures), Manatees, Puffer fish, Sawfish, Crocodiles and Cownose Rays. It would have a tide effect that would cause the water level to rise and fall like the pathway to the Sun Temple boss.
TEMPERATE TIDAL SHORE: Lots of little pools along a rocky coast. Hazards would include slippery wrackweed, sharp barnacles and dive-bombing seagulls.
HYDROTHERMAL VENTS: Although Aquaria already has an Abyss level, a sequel could have more specialized deep-ocean settings. Would feature Yeti Crabs, Tube Worms, Eelpouts and giant, sulfur-belching Mussels
RELIC SEA: An isolated sea filled with prehistoric (Cambrian-age) animals like Anomalocaris, Opabinia, Wiwaxia, Hurdia Victoria, Bannfia, Odontogriphus, Eldonia, etc.
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Actually, I do have a couple of works posted in the fanart section.
I just checked out your website. Nice stuff!
Have you done any digital painting with a graphics tablet? Your art style is colorful and fun and seems like a perfect fit for an Aquaria mod, is all. ;)
I wonder, with all the comments Alec's made throughout the site, if he's described some of the story beyond the game already.
And I'm jealous that you've made a children's storybook. That was one of my dreams. Though it's never too late, I suppose.
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Hey, thanks for the boss comments!
I haven't used a graphics tablet yet, though I'd like to try one eventually. It would definitely be interesting to try my hand at mod art. Though someone else would probably have to do the actual game creation. I'm good enough at computers that I could probably do it myself, but I know it would disappear amid all my other projects.
And no, it is never, ever to late to follow your dreams.... man, that sounds like an after-school special. But it's true. Have at it, I say.
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If you decide to try digital painting, I recommend downloading MyPaint (http://mypaint.intilinux.com/), as it's the best open-source painting program I've seen and a real blast to play with, and buying an inexpensive Wacom tablet. It's awkward at first because you won't have the control you're used to with a pencil and paper, but you will eventually get the hang of it and then the fun starts. It's really nice being able to fix your mistakes and alter things after the fact. Plus, being able to manipulate colors without repainting a single thing is just plain awesome.
At one point, I thought about just creating a library of creature images and objects for people to use in their own mods. Food for thought.
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I have a graphics tablet but I'm more at ease with drawing, scanning, and moving the drawing into GIMP2.0, which is a free program with lots of help online. You can get lots of brushes free for GIMP also.
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You can get lots of brushes free for GIMP also.
Also, it can use Photoshop brushes.