Bit Blot Forum
Bit Blot => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Chibi on November 20, 2008, 01:38:20 am
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[EDIT] pm'd to Alec instead of posted here
This makes me so sad: even worse, it's been downloaded 1500 times! :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Hope you guys can delete it successfully Good luck! :(
[EDIT] In fact, found 6 sites, with an unknown number of people downloading. "sighs"
Anyone who downloaded it can't get version 1.1.0., but it's a small consolation, for 1.1.0 will turn up on the site sooner or later
[EDITed by Max, inspired by Inkblob] only changed the mood, but kept the words for reference
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:(
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Aquaria has been on the torrent circuit for well over a year now, pretty much as soon as it was released. it's not a good thing but there are a couple of other ways of looking at this at the same time. you can't really stop piracy, the whole world is having to adjust to that but there are ways to work around it. if your game, show, music is being pirated then that's actually a sign of popularity. if you look at shows that are not heavily torrented and watch for shows that eventually get cancelled, there is an anecdotal correlation between the two. you can treat it as a bit of an illegal popularity stock market report.
anyone who purchased the game had the option to dl it illegally and yet they still chose to support Alec & Derek's creation. I think that is pretty awesome and a testimony that people don't really suck that bad. pretty much any of the x amount of times the file has been dl'd wern't going to be sales anyways but they probably generated some revenue from people buying the game after dl'ing it despite that. it's nice that you are so passionate about this issue, most kids your age could give a toss about (c) issues so it's good that you are trying to figure out your moral compass.
if you are trying to fix the situation then the oddly worded phrase 'you attract more flies with honey' pertains here. try and be congenial and reasonable when dealing with torrent networks instead of being an asshat and you will get results. often they are respectful of developers and will respond to a civilized request rather than a threaty rant. and if that dosn't work than at least you tried.
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I think I made a bit of a fool of myself there: ah well, idealists are lonely ;)
Yeah, I don't mind too much if they still pay for the game, but there could be an indirect evil (the sites receive increased popularity and are paid more by advertisers) In my opinion, torrent sites should be more like a forum, with moderators judging how legal a post is.
Sorry for clogging your PM inbox with useless information, Alec! :)
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You're not so alone. I refuse to torrent games as I refuse to torrent movies. However I totally torrent anime. The way I see it, I could watch this shit on TV and even record it on my DVR if I lived in Japan, but I have to pay 25-30 dollars for FOUR episodes on DVD? No chance.
/end rant
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Wow, thats sad, I mean for programs like flash that are $700, i can see why some people use torrent, but Aquaria is $30, and for a game full of beutiful hand-painted artwork, great gameplay, and awesome music, methinks that $30 is MORE than a great deal! I mean people who download torrent games must think theyre too good to pay or something. sheesh
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It is especially galling when there are only two developers; I can almost understand people defying a large, faceless corporation, but hurting Bit-Blot is a lot like robbing the poor and giving to no one.
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Well, pirating is convenient,
I don't think most of them ever heard of Bit Blot being a two man independent company.
And if every 50th person who downloads it decides to buy it: Fine! Plus you don't have to underestimate the gaining of high profile the game gets through it.
I torrent music from time to time and if I like it a lot, I buy it afterwards. And I wouldn't have bought the other anyways, so concerning me, the bands/labels don't loose money through torrenting.
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anyone who purchased the game had the option to dl it illegally and yet they still chose to support Alec & Derek's creation. I think that is pretty awesome and a testimony that people don't really suck that bad. pretty much any of the x amount of times the file has been dl'd wern't going to be sales anyways but they probably generated some revenue from people buying the game after dl'ing it despite that. it's nice that you are so passionate about this issue, most kids your age could give a toss about (c) issues so it's good that you are trying to figure out your moral compass.
if you are trying to fix the situation then the oddly worded phrase 'you attract more flies with honey' pertains here. try and be congenial and reasonable when dealing with torrent networks instead of being an asshat and you will get results. often they are respectful of developers and will respond to a civilized request rather than a threaty rant. and if that dosn't work than at least you tried.
I think you're right... it is very heartwarming that people would choose to support us when they could pirate it. As for people who pirated the game, I'm not going to say I condone it, but I am happy that they are at least playing the game (and hopefully enjoying it).
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An admirable statement coming from the artist of Aquaria ... I applaud you Derek! ;D (Even though it is impossible to hate Aquaria if you have a soul) ;)
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I already saw and knew about the torrent download, and it's availability as being seeded, but you know what? I've also been waiting for this game since before it was finished. A long time before it was finished. I wanted to support the artists and creators of such a worthy project. Thus, I paid for it, and continue to support it. I've even supported it with work on quite a hefty mod project which I'd like to say I'm still working on, it's just that I've taken a break from it since I got back from a 6 month deployment. I've been spending much of my time with my beautiful wife and 2 kids. I'm also waiting a lot on the newer release before I continue on with any work on the project. So anyways, I definitely agree that you can't stop piracy, and at the same time it can be a good thing. The more popular it becomes the more likely that more people will know about it and the more people will pay for it and support the creators. Of course there will always be those that try to pay for nothing. Not much can be done about it though. But if any of you that are in the habit of pirating software, please support the creators of this project. The game isn't that expensive, you aren't really saving a lot of money, and also it's an independently developed game, so it's not a big company. These creators deserve the credit for their work and definitely deserve the small amount of money for the game.
[Edit] Spell Checked. Sorry, was typing this out late at night and was quite tired.
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Very well said. I believe that is the opinion of a rational and forgiving person. ;D Glad to hear that you're spending more time with your wife and kids: the screen is a fickle partner. (As Alec and Derek Fish found out) ;D
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So don't kill me for saying this.
I had originally pirated Aquaria from a torrent.
But once I saw that was a wonderful creation it was, I bought the game. :D
I'm so picky about games, that I find torrents of games, and if I like them enough, I support the company/creators.
It's so ridiculous to pay up the ass for some heartless/thoughtless games being marketed by uncaring corporations, that I find using torrents useful for testing out games. Yes, there could be an argument over the use of demos, but sometimes I find that demos end up being totally different of what the game actually is.
Tho I still pirate anime, some programs, and some music, for I very much agree with Glamador's point of view. But, like with Aquaria, I will support if I find the quality to do so.
Am I dead yet?
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I think that's alright - the only alternative would be to raise your voice to the major game developers asking for better demos.
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So don't kill me for saying this.
I had originally pirated Aquaria from a torrent.
But once I saw that was a wonderful creation it was, I bought the game. :D
I'm so picky about games, that I find torrents of games, and if I like them enough, I support the company/creators.
It's so ridiculous to pay up the ass for some heartless/thoughtless games being marketed by uncaring corporations, that I find using torrents useful for testing out games. Yes, there could be an argument over the use of demos, but sometimes I find that demos end up being totally different of what the game actually is.
Tho I still pirate anime, some programs, and some music, for I very much agree with Glamador's point of view. But, like with Aquaria, I will support if I find the quality to do so.
Am I dead yet?
I found out about the game through torrent posts and comments, tried the demo and promptly purchased the game. your moral compass points in the same general direction as mine and Zeus hasn't smote me with lightning yet :) there's dozens of bands that I've gone to see in person that I wouldn't have even known about if it weren't for p2p, there is a significant unquantifiable upshot of p2p in general and it's those sorts who hoarde and then try and profit off of piracy that need to walk the plank >:D
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So don't kill me for saying this.
I had originally pirated Aquaria from a torrent.
But once I saw that was a wonderful creation it was, I bought the game. :D
I'm so picky about games, that I find torrents of games, and if I like them enough, I support the company/creators.
It's so ridiculous to pay up the ass for some heartless/thoughtless games being marketed by uncaring corporations, that I find using torrents useful for testing out games. Yes, there could be an argument over the use of demos, but sometimes I find that demos end up being totally different of what the game actually is.
Tho I still pirate anime, some programs, and some music, for I very much agree with Glamador's point of view. But, like with Aquaria, I will support if I find the quality to do so.
Am I dead yet?
I found out about the game through torrent posts and comments, tried the demo and promptly purchased the game. your moral compass points in the same general direction as mine and Zeus hasn't smote me with lightning yet :) there's dozens of bands that I've gone to see in person that I wouldn't have even known about if it weren't for p2p, there is a significant unquantifiable upshot of p2p in general and it's those sorts who hoarde and then try and profit off of piracy that need to walk the plank >:D
<3
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I use that trick as well for other "bigger" game... I tried Aquaria Demo, bought the downloadable version... then bought it again on steam! :D
I plan on buying it a third time for the big hard copy deluxe SE package... :)
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As part of a very interesting and instructive nevertheless discussion, I would add my contribution with a post from Chris of Introversion Software (one other good indie company, the producer of Darwinia), speaking about piracy and copy protections:
http://forums.introversion.co.uk/introversion/viewtopic.php?t=1046
Introversion uses online account verification. But I think it's games are a bit different than bit-blot's one. They are more multiplayer oriented, and thus the most enjoyment would be online... and going online you must pass server authentication.. so...
I would like to ear staff's opinion about copy protection implementation on Aquaria...
Anyway the price has been lowered to 15.80 Euro, WOW!
Only a mean man would torrent aquaria.
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Prompt like death, aquaria 1.1.1 is on ed2k...
Hope those seeders at least appreciate the game and the work as much as I expect. As much to convince them that pay for it would be the only right thing to do.
Let's think positive.
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Good link - Chris's essay is a thoughtful reflection on copy protection.
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Sorry for chiding you, but could you edit the first post rather than write another? Thanks.
why? if it's a different subject or if it's new content that the poster wants to have show up in the unread post thread rather then appended to a previously read post, edits don't show up in unread posts, then it's their prerogative isn't it? are we running out of interwebs?
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Inkblob is right, the original post was almost a month old. And the new post had new info, perfectly legible.
I found Aquaria through... Gamespot I think, I downloaded the demo, liked it a lot, had to torrent it seeing I had no paypal, soon after I made account on there and bought the game, just for that. ^^
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I stand corrected.
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I found Aquaria through... Gamespot I think, I downloaded the demo, liked it a lot, had to torrent it seeing I had no paypal, soon after I made account on there and bought the game, just for that. ^^
Yeah, I originally torrented it too, but after playing through it a bit and finding out that it was created by an Indie company made up of two people I had to buy it. I usually torrent a game I don't know much about, then use it as a sort of demo (there have been times when I bought a game I knew I wouldn't buy if I was only to play the demo) I don't use torrents so much though, usually to get a game I had owned and then lost.
Support your local Indie Developers!
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I don't really mind the bump, but as a rule, try not to post on topics that haven't been posted in for half a month. They usually are dead, and some take offense. :)
Bump away. ;)
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Ugh, has it been half a month already? Where the hell is all my time going? Sorry about that, I tend to be a little careless with dates sometimes. ;)
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Chibi, bumping is okay when you're adding new content to a topic, and not just leave a worthless post. Also, two weeks isn't THAT much.
And no, I don't mean this offensive, I'm just saying what I think. ^^
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Okay: I was just speaking on your and others' behalf. :)
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this thread is turning into a history of what is Chibi bothered about lately. is he on about staying on topic right now, as I would be in gross infraction of that forum malfeasance in such case :P
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!? I'm all for going back onto topic... ;) ... but I've nothing to say.
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Well, I'm propably an idiot for asking this, but does anyone have version 1.0 laying there somewhere? (torrented or not) I want to check if there really is a submarine of Li in version 1.0
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Well, I'm propably an idiot for asking this, but does anyone have version 1.0 laying there somewhere? (torrented or not) I want to check if there really is a submarine of Li in version 1.0
I'm fairly certain that there is not.
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Look no further than here (http://btjunkie.org/torrent/Aquaria-v1-0-0-CIY/43333b5e4c98bde7c8669a414031fadc4b69b1d7f102), though the site's reputation is dubious at best ... :)
[EDIT]: You'll need a Torrent client to open the file.
[EDIT]: No seeders, whatever those are ... but without them, it's no go. ;)
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Thanks for the trouble, but the thing has no seeders, as so, you can't completely download it, which, in a way, is good, seeing people can't download it now, but I'm searching for version 1.0.0 anyway.
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Oh. What are seeders?
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Oh. What are seeders?
too lazy for google or wikipedia? well...
A seeder is a peer that has a complete copy of the torrent and still offers it for upload. The more seeders there are, the better the chances are for completion of the file. (wikipeida)
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You mean people post incomplete files? What's the point of that? ??? :) Also, I was just leaving for piano lessons when I wrote my previous post.
[EDIT]: Mock outrage, if you're wondering. ;)
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You mean people post incomplete files? What's the point of that? ??? :) Also, I was just leaving for piano lessons when I wrote my previous post.
[EDIT]: Mock outrage, if you're wondering. ;)
the original posted file is 100% as someone dl'ds the file from the seeder ( someone who has 100% ) they are called peers. as more and more people get the whole file then the amount of seeders increase and the file can dl more quickly. when you come across a file with many people sharing it, you will be dl'ing diff chunks from diff people, dl'ing 10-15% from person a, dl'ing 35-42% from person b, etc. the torrent application figures out what and how much you can dl from each person based on their connection speed and how much of the file they are sharing.
generally an hour long tv show takes about an hour to dl, depending on popularity and your connection speed. if something like Lost or Survivor is just posted then there is a lot of 'hype' around the file and it may take all of 10 minutes to bring it down as there are so many people sharing. it's kind of a stock market of what's currently interesting and should replace the Neilsen ratings ;)
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I see ... so the issue is speed, right? How long would a 200 megabyte file take to download without seeders?
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it would be impossible. even if there were peers, a peer by definition does not have 100% of the file. you need at least one seed to keep the file alive. essentially it depends on the amount of people sharing, and then we get into something called ratios, which is seeds/peers and a healthy torrent usually has an even'ish amount as opposed to swaying towards either side of the spectrum.
to give you an idea, many tv shows might have 100's of seed and peers, sometimes up to 1000's, even months after it was shown on the air. a popular show that is posted the night it airs can up to 10,000 seeds+ and twice that many peers and those are the files that come down lightning fast. a half hour show is 175 mb~, an hour show is 350~ mb, and movies hover around 700 mb.
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Inkblob seems to know his p2p. ^^
But yeah, no seeders anywhere. D:
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If the sum of all the peers is a complete file then you don't need a seed. However given the dynamics of the Bittorrent protocol a situation like that won't last long as eventually each peer will acquire the entire file and become a seed (if they aren't leeches and remove the file :P )
Basically, if there are chunks of the file that aren't available on the network then you'll never get the whole file. As for speed a seeder functions the same as a peer, it just has the entire file. Peers are sending and recieving chuncks at the same time, seeds are only sending chunks.
Back to the point though, maybe Alec has an old version hanging around?
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Inkblob seems to know his p2p. ^^
who me? ::)
If the sum of all the peers is a complete file then you don't need a seed. However given the dynamics of the Bittorrent protocol a situation like that won't last long as eventually each peer will acquire the entire file and become a seed (if they aren't leeches and remove the file :P )
I didn't mention that as it hurts my head to think about it, one of those things that is sure to break the whole internet if it happens.
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Thanks for the explanation, inkblob. Like Alpha said, you know your stuff. Why do I have a picture of an evil madman with his hand over the delete key? :o ;)
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what? that all was basic internet knowledge. It's not as if inkblob is a file-pirate. ;)
i'm quite sure to have 1.o too. Will try to find it on one of my external harddrives.
Edit: found it. 202 MBs. Will try to host it tomorrow.
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Thanks, Xiagan. :) I've never torrented before, and knew absolutely nothing about the technical side before Alpha filled me in.
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we've used the bittorrent protocol at work on numerous occasions for completly legit reasons. I also host a server that is part of a napster based protocol network that is for sharing patterns and recipies. p2p isn't synonymous with piracy, it is just many methods of transferring files, what you do with it has a subjective slant. I'm not claiming innocence either way but these things should be noted right.
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Sorry, inkblob. I did that without thinking. :-[ Please excuse me. :)
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Sorry, inkblob. I did that without thinking. :-[ Please excuse me. :)
it's not a worry Chibi, just making the distinction. I'm not at all professing my angelic innocence but I have been in numerous situations where p2p usages has been as criminal as jaywalking at midnight.
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Gasp @ inkblob
And Xiagan, that'd be awesome, will you put a password on the file and PM the willing (and the ones proven to have the game) the password?
Or was there something like that on the game itself already? I think I remember when I first... 'obtained' the game I had to do something extra to make it work. >_>
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I just pm you the link and will delete it after you downloaded it I think.
And yes, you have to type in some kind of serial you got in a mail.
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Got it, and thanks again! ^^
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I just pm you the link and will delete it after you downloaded it I think.
And yes, you have to type in some kind of serial you got in a mail.
I've wondered about this. I got a key, but I've never entered it anywhere. It has had me a little puzzled to be honest. What is it for? Proof of purchase?
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Depends on your version. The new version is DRM-free, so you don't need a key anymore. In the old versions you should've needed it for being able to play it.
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an amendment to my earlier description, anyone who dosn't have 100% of the file is a leech and both seeders and leeches are peers. I don't necessarily know my stuff that well ;)