Random Thoughts...

[novelweapons]

Whoa.

I didn't even know any of this existed until two days ago!

I haven't been up-to-date on the indie games scene for some time now; in fact the last freeware release that I played was BES' Eternal Daughter. When I came across Aquaria on Metacritic, I decided to check out the site on a whim. As soon as I saw Mr. Yu's name attached, my response was  something like "you have to be sh*tting me"  . And of course I bought Aquaria without hesitation.

Let me just say that the kid's come a long way from "Trigger Happy" on the KnP engine! Seriously though,
Aquaria is f*cking gorgeous. There is nothing that I could say about it that hasn't been said already... his attention to detail is phenominal. Exploring the gameworld and taking in the beautiful and diverse aquatic life in each area is motivation to continue in and of itself.

Second...

I applaud the decision to keep Aquaria absolutely open-ended with no hand-holding or defined goal gameplay. I explored the universe at my own speed and became awe-struck and terrified right with Nadja. At times I did become lost, but I found this an unavoidable hurdle in a gameworld so massive and filled to the brim with secrets. Even the puzzles were very organic; I was provided with enough clues to find my way around them by examining the environment and experimenting with my song powers.

And last...

I'm still not done! I've just reached The Abyss after completely exploring the Kelp Forest. In fact, why am I still typing this when the warm waters of Aquaria await?

Thanks Bit Blot.

- Nate

[PiscesToAquaria]

I love the game myself.  But while I completely agree with you that a huge open world makes getting lost easy, there should be some non-spoiler way to figure out what to do next, without having to traverse the entire world at random.   Maybe a log of what Naija says with clear references to where it applies?  How about somehow tagging places which you could not access initially, on the map?  I have a terrible memory, and I need reminders of things I may have learned 8 hours of gameplay earlier.  Oh, how about this?  Let the user make notes on the map, a la Zelda Phantom Hourglass.

My other "God I'm lost" comment about Aquaria relates to the bosses.  When you first encounter some of them, you have absolutely no idea if what you're doing is at all effective, or if you even have what it takes yet to tackle them.  As an example, I abandoned all attempts to defeat Mithalas initially, thinking that I needed something I didn't have yet to do any damage.  (Something Naija said reinforced this notion.)  Turns out I did, but the obscure strategy simply did not occur to me.  This is one place where I eventually resorted to a spoiler.  I absolutely HATE having to do that.  Makes me feel like a cheater.

[Alec]

I think its a pretty subjective thing in general. Design-wise you choose how much information to give the player. A lot of modern games tend to spell everything out so that nobody has a chance of getting lost. I personally find that I detach from games when they have too many direct "hints". (in some games they tend to be more like instructions)

I could see how someone could get totally lost in Aquaria, but part of me thinks that having that possibility in there is important; "feeling lost".

[PiscesToAquaria]

Right.  I hate games that lead me by the nose.  What I meant by "non-spoiler way" is narrowing down options based on what your alter ego *already discovered*.  Some tag for unexplored paths, "big purple thing blocks me here", "pitch black here", etc.  If I had a perfect memory, I wouldn't need them.  Sadly, I don't.  I think forcing the player to seek outside hints is *worse* than having a few too many hints.  If something is nearly impossible to discern within the confines of the game, the results are frustration and that feeling of defeat after looking it up.  Not the emotions to promote.  I'm guessing the hardest thing about striking the proper balance for a small independent developer is that the main game testers already know how to go about playing the game.  What's obvious to them may be inscrutable to others, but how can you be sure?  I didn't follow the development of Aquaria.  Did you have play testers without any kind of walkthroughs?

[Xiagan]

If something is nearly impossible to discern within the confines of the game, ...

But that is different for everybody.  I had no problem figuring out some stuff others found too difficult and other way round.

Did you have play testers without any kind of walkthroughs?

I'm quite sure they had.

[EntiteFred]

I don't think Aquaria needs more hints (well, except maybe for Li, which you can easily bypass even when you know where to look), but being able to add our own notes to the map would have been a good idea, as being able to replay what Naija say.  After all, it sucks a bit having to restart the game because you where not attentive to what Naija said.

Not that this have to change in Aquaria, but thinking about it in your next games would be nice.  A logbook where the player can write in-game would probably be enough of a memory helper for a lot of players (well, It would have helped me).

[Guert]

If something is nearly impossible to discern within the confines of the game, ...

But that is different for everybody.  I had no problem figuring out some stuff others found too difficult and other way round.

Did you have play testers without any kind of walkthroughs?

I'm quite sure they had.

Actualy we didn't. It was part of the play test. During the first run, you need to get a fresh look on the game and see how people react while they play, then tweak the gameplay to make them feel the way the design was suppose to. If Alec or Derek would've provided us with walkthrough, we would not have been able to get that "virgin" feel.

Of course, after the first runs,  we ended up using some walkthroughs and guides to test the funcitonalities and see if everything worked like planned.  But, at first, we started with nothing, just to see how we felt.

The first time I played, I missed a lot of stuff.  Afterwards, I saw pretty much everything.  Some testers found everything possible the first time around tho (at least if I remember well ) .   In the end it depends on the player. Some like to explore, others don't (or others aren't exploring thoroughly when doing so).  I wish I could give you some personal example but the version I first played is too different so my examples would be irrelevant

And I liked the fact that you could go where you wanted to when you wanted to. I feel that it makes the world more believable.   You know it's a stupid idea to wander off in a strange place filled with danger, without any source of light, but nobody is gonna stop you from doing it, like in "real life" . Well, it's my opinion

[Alphasoldier]

Not that this have to change in Aquaria, but thinking about it in your next games would be nice.  A logbook where the player can write in-game would probably be enough of a memory helper for a lot of players (well, It would have helped me).

It's called grabbing a paper and pencil. =p

And I totally concur with Guert's last statement. It's also something that's obviously in Metroid, a very good property imho.

[Glamador]

Well ever since I've played Phantom Hourglass I've always thought the ability to make on the fly notations, drawings, and markers on the map was a TERRIFIC idea.  I think you underestimate the convenience and pure gimmick factor that really makes that kind of thing shine.

[inkblob]

something I was thinking of, instead of making handwritten notes, was custom icons you can place anywhere. pushpins you can put anywhere and they mean whatever you want. they arn't in English because Aquarian has it's own script, but they would be glyphs like seahorses, jellies, clams, that sort of thing. then when you come by something suspicious in the game, open up the map, drop an icon and it would be persistent like the other game boss, save and portal icons you see no matter what map section you are on.  I would have used that for blue crystals, suspicious rock formations, fish trails and definitely other things.

[Alec]

something I was thinking of, instead of making handwritten notes, was custom icons you can place anywhere. pushpins you can put anywhere and they mean whatever you want. they arn't in English because Aquarian has it's own script, but they would be glyphs like seahorses, jellies, clams, that sort of thing. then when you come by something suspicious in the game, open up the map, drop an icon and it would be persistent like the other game boss, save and portal icons you see no matter what map section you are on.  I would have used that for blue crystals, suspicious rock formations, fish trails and definitely other things.

Heh, we had that at one point. Generic icons you could drag around.

I also considered drawing on the map at one point.

Both ideas got scraped, but I can't remember exactly why.

[inkblob]

And I liked the fact that you could go where you wanted to when you wanted to. I feel that it makes the world more believable.   You know it's a stupid idea to wander off in a strange place filled with danger, without any source of light, but nobody is gonna stop you from doing it, like in "real life" . Well, it's my opinion

 I blindy stormed the abyss with nothing but my idiocy in tow, and freakishly made it out via turtle ( first turtle I ran into too  )  I'd still be curious to hear what sort of evolution the game took even if the examples are not relevant 

Heh, we had that at one point. Generic icons you could drag around.

I also considered drawing on the map at one point.

Both ideas got scraped, but I can't remember exactly why.

if you can't remember exactly then you should definitely implement it now 

[Alphasoldier]

I think if he tries to put them in again, he will find out again why he has let them out.

But indeed, Icons, maybe with text, would be a nice feature to add to the map. Available for dragging around, making a LIMITED amount of icons, dun want the whole map to be flooded.

And Glamador, yes, I also own Phantom hourglass and I liked the idea, but that has nothing to do with non-map funtions. Do people really need a notebook ON the game? Just grab paper and a pencil.

For map, yes. For general gameplay, no, has no use. Well, I'm lying, it does has use, but the trouble to go through with it to make it is too big then the reward you get from it. =p

[Xiagan]

Did you have play testers without any kind of walkthroughs?

I'm quite sure they had.

Actualy we didn't.

That's what I meant. I'm quite sure they had testers without any kind of wlkthrough.

[IceD]

Testers mostly test the games from an view of average player. So there can't be any walkthroughs. Beta-testers are different, and they look for the bugs, so they have to know about some of the things in-game.