Why I like this game, de-installed it, but then istalled it again **spoilers**)

[Xocrates]

I guess what I'm saying is making the game into step by step "explain everything" bullshit like every mainstream game that comes out, would drive me even further towards suicide.

Heh, we must play different games

Accessibility does not mean you have to explain everything (although that is a way), is making sure the player knows how to play. Making them use their abilities in new forms  is one way (which is well implemented in Aquaria in many points, but lacking on a few others), the slow and gradual introduction of those same abilities is another.

For instances, when playing Mithala's boss I quickly realized that the poison beings were relevant for beating the boss, what I did not know, nor did it cross my mind, was that I could cast bind on them since it does not work on any other living creature till then except to remove their shell (which they did not had), being able to do that actually went against what I had been "taught" so far.

Or maybe I am just dumb. Your pick

[Alec]

Naw you're right, I'm just stupid.

I think I should quit while I'm behind.

[Alec]

But yeah, I guess that's the nice thing about working at a big company. They can test everything with 100s of people so everyone can play it, all the bumps are smoothed out. Its kinda stupid to try to make a game with 2 people and think that people could actually enjoy it all the way through.

The other nice thing about a big company is the angry screaming and shit-flinging gets directed at the company itself and not its employees. So you can just work a 9-5 and head home and forget about it. You don't have to deal with people wanting to destroy you on a daily basis.

Also, big companies have teams that actually show up to work. They don't decide to take 3 days off when a game is released and not tell you about it and leave you having to deal with all the work.

[Xocrates]

Alec, relax, no one is saying you did a bad job.

I'm well aware Aquaria was a gargantuan job for you guys, and I can imagine how much it annoys you to get so much flak.

However, even more because of that, you need to realize Aquaria is not perfect. People will complain, people are like that, and you need to be ready for it.

Aquaria can be your little baby, but to most folk is just this nice game that happens to have some flaws. Remember that.

[Alec]

See, that pisses me off even more. I know the game isn't perfect. I never pretended it was perfect. In fact now I hate it more than anything, except myself.

In fact the way you're treating me as if I'm an idiot who can't realize that his own game is worthless shit is really insulting.

[Xiagan]

You did everything right. Noone attacks the player who hasn't got the ball.

[Xocrates]

In fact the way you're treating me as if I'm an idiot who can't realize that his own game is worthless shit is really insulting.

Actually, I was trying very hard to point out that you weren't an idiot and that the game wasn't shit despite what everyone might say.

I apologize if I passed the wrong impression.

[Alec]

I dunno, I'd like to feel like we could work to improve stuff with feedback and whatnot. I'd also like to feel at peace with myself and not feel like a total waste of space.

But waking up every morning, checking my email and reading personal threats doesn't encourage me to do those things. It just encourages me to give up.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding stupid/wimpy or something, but I'm at my wit's end I guess.

[Glamador]

Oooook...Alec's getting a little mad.  So without further adoo, ESTEEM-BOOSTING-POST!

Man this game is a completely unique experience greater than any of it's ilk since Metroid!  The difficulty is compelling and makes me want to accomplish more.  The bosses were clever and unique and as I said before the lack of hints made me feel accomplished moreso than any "mainstream" game I've played in years!  I liked this game so much that I played it for 3 days straight stopping only for food, and let me tell you, that hasn't happened since RE4.  Sure I got frustrated, but I'm easily frustrated!  In fact if you don't make a sequel or expansion I'll be sorely dissapointed because I'm starving for more of this game!  Keep the good stuff rolling!

On a side-note, I LIKED BIOSHOCK.

[Alec]

I don't need and I'm not asking for "ego boosting". I'm also not mad at anyone except myself. 

[Alec]

On a side-note, I LIKED BIOSHOCK.

I really liked BioShock as well, in terms of the environment. It was a fun game to play through. And it also has a hard mode that probably gets rid of a lot of the silly (as far as I see it) help stuff.

I wasn't really trying to diss BioShock, more just saying in games where there is an overly long tutorial mode or something guiding you everywhere I tend to feel restricted. Obviously its a problem if people can't figure out what they can do to progress, but I feel like those things can be done in a more clever and effective way most times.

Also if a game is too easy, I become lazy and disinterested.

Games I like manage to have enough difficulty without being impossible. I'm thinking of games like FF6 where I'd skip a lot of the battles, but the system was open enough that I could get creative with items and strategy to just barely beat the next boss on a low level. I'd die a couple of times at first, but try some new stuff and eventually find a way to get past - I wasn't required to go gain 10 levels or something.

So I think I wanted to recreate that feel somewhat. I guess that's why I'd call it a "style". Is it a perfect representation of that? I highly doubt it.

[hanzo]

Look Alec, as I said, I know how it is. I know how it is to be spending your whole time working on something, while other people are out there living their lives, spend your days and nights spending hours and hours on perfecting something that will probably never be perfect, and then also getting the shit thrown at you.
But remember that there is one thing that's even worse, doing all this and not getting even noticed.
So you have to call yourself happy, because you did a game, you probably worked a lot and hardy, and no matter if you get all positive feedback or critique, you have been having a lot of it! People are playing your game, some are happy some less, but they all bought it and are playing it.
 I'm sorry to have started this whole thing, but on the other side I just said what I thought and I think this is what everybody should be doing in life. Hey, we would all have been hypocrites if we were only saing "Hey Alec, what a great game you made".
It's a great game, but it has some flows... and know what, somebody (can't remember who though) said that if you're able to reach 70% of what was your initial aim, then you can call yourself good!
As far as I can tell, it feels like you got more than 70%.
Take the things I've said for what they are, critiques, from somebody who is not even really in your target audience, but still critiques that might be helpful.
It's still one of your early works, you cannot expect it to be perfect. That's why you need people telling you the things they don't like.
And I don't know who is sending you personal threats... it feels more like everybody loves you here!

The thing about making a game hard is, IMHO, to find out how to make it hard but accessible at the same time. You have a puzzle, when you have the pieces in front of you and you have to figure out how to combine them, when you miss the pieces, and you only see the outcome, solution you have a mystery, and those are far harder to solve.
I absolutely agree with you about what you say about modern games, there's more clever ways than just explain everything. As far as I see, there's some parts where you solved the problem in a really clever way, in others less. But again, you cannot get everything right the first time.

[mugodz]

I see one serious problem with this game. I finished it and it looks like I have to wait for at least two more years til you guys come up with the next one.

But Alec, I think this time you are overreacting a bit. I'm a regular visitor at JayisGames, and every once in a while an idiot post something informative as "this game sucks". These are the kind of guys who should not be taken seriously, as they are probably 15 year old at max and know no shit about what it takes to produce even the simplest enjoyable flash game.

But these two guys here, hanzo and xiagan, are nothing like this. If you are letting off steam because other stupid people's hatemail, it's okay, but it's not their fault, and I think they provided thoughtful, constructive critique, even not sharing the same point of view most of us have about Aquaria.

As for the debate if Aquaria is difficult or not, after playing Eternal Daughter it felt like a cakewalk most of the time. And I was grateful for that because any more difficulty would keep me from enjoying the rich environment of the game. I was frustrated at times that everybody is trying to bite my ass off, but later it was fun to see waters I fled from earlier because I was to wimpy to swim trough them safely. Once I was chased by a horde of nautilus down to the abyss where I realized I have to turn back because I cant see a thing, and face the horde again. Those were great moments of the game.

It's true there are several points where the game gives not enough hints about what to do, but I see this as a design decision, and not as a flaw. Anyone who's bothered could always get help here. But I would reccomend this as only a last chance, because the feeling you get when you figure out something on your own is priceless. One example is the Soulform ability about projectiles. No hint is ever given about it. I see it as a sort of game secret only the pros know, and it's great to have things like that. I remember those days playing Mortal Combat and sharing special moves in school we figured out on our own.

All in all, Alec, calm down, you guys made a great game, and you know it.  Don't pretend you don't, cuz I won't believe you.

[foya]

ohoh, alec dear, don't be doubt.  you ARE on the right way. don't be sad.  God protect those who believe in God. obviously you are not God, yeah? just take that suggestion if it does good to your work. don't care about those nonsence... threats? shift+del.
you look under stress now....
perfectionism sometimes inspires people, sometimes causes feelings of discouragement. take it easy.

[Xiagan]

But these two guys here, hanzo and xiagan, are nothing like this. If you are letting off steam because other stupid people's hatemail, it's okay, but it's not their fault, and I think they provided thoughtful, constructive critique, even not sharing the same point of view most of us have about Aquaria.

I guess you mean Xocrates... Difficult with all those X's.