Why I like this game, de-installed it, but then istalled it again **spoilers**)

[dhakkel]

I really wouldn't worry about people saying it's too hard or hating certain aspects of the game, Alec. People have grown to hate a lot of games because so many games nowadays are shit. I didn't find Aquaria hard at ALL, I only died in areas full of enemies where I tried to kill everything. How many places required you to jump and avoid spikes? That one area in the Sun Temple? Man, that's like complaining about Sonic 1 because you couldn't beat the Labrynth Zone. It's a part of the game, if you can't do it you just suck. That isn't the game's fault.

Nothing in the game was confusing if you just thought about it. Every time I got stuck it was because I didn't try something, the Mithalas boss and the final form of the final boss took the most figuring out and even those took about 10 minutes of trial and error.

Like you said, you can't appeal to everyone. Some people will always find things to pick at. Just be glad about the fact that you have pleased a lot of people, and don't let the ones that can't deal with Aquaria get you down.

scratch that go join ea like everyone else

[Alec]

scratch that go join ea like everyone else

EA is where its at.

lol

[dhakkel]

hey the pay well AND you get total creative freedom.......
.................
......

[Alec]

...

I guess you might still get death threats working there, but they'd probably come from management.

[foya]

Life is dear, love is dearer. Both can be given up for freedom.
but what about money or somewhat of safety?
XD

[DSProgrammer]

The cool thing is right at the beginning of the game it tells you that you can find save points using the minimap.

yes I know... but if shows only those you have already found.

The minimap *does* guide you to save points - you know how it shows area exits as white circles?  It shows save points as red circles.  Note, that's the *mini* map, in the corner of the screen, not the fullscreen map.  Those circles give you the general direction of a save point (the game teaches this by talking about how your home is displayed by yellow circles).  And the save before the boss is pretty darn close to him.  Me, if I reach a boss (and lose) and see there are still areas I haven't explored yet in that dungeon (that aren't blocked by something I can't get past), I go back and do some more exploring.  This not only lets you find important things like save points, but you can also stock up on more cooking ingredients, maybe find a recipe or collectible that you may have missed if you beat the boss (as most people will leave a dungeon the moment they've beaten the boss and gotten a new ability).

As for the mithlas boss, I didn't try to kill it by just shooting it, because the first couple major bosses wasn't killed that way (one by singing, the other by luring it into a zapper thing).  Took me a bit of time to figure that out on the second boss, but once I did I figured out that all the major bosses were puzzles, and not to be just shot to death.  Of course, then the sun boss threw me for a loop   In the end I just gathered all my healing/defensive items and tried to wear the boss down...and it worked.  Yeah, there are a couple tricky spike jumps before it, but only a couple, and if you know you are going to be hurt, just farm up a couple more healing items.

I actually like this game for a couple of the reasons the OP doesn't - the game doesn't give you hints on top of hints on top of hints - it actually lets you think, explore, and experiment and try and figure things out for yourself.   Aquaria gives you just enough info to survive in the world, and the rare hint here and there about something that wouldn't be obvious to the player (like the gears in the sun temple), and then lets you go and explore this new world.  It's not just mindless "go from point A to point B, attack boss until dead, repeat"  This is a reason I've been disliking a few of the recent Metroid games, they continually give you hints, tell you where to go next (marking it on your map), and what to do.  You scan a boss and it tells you his weak point.  Even Zelda has been getting simpler lately, as, while they don't tell you boss weak points, they make sure the weakness is *ALWAYS* the item you just got in the current dungeon.

[lecarl]

I guess I will post something here:

I really liked Aquaria.  And I really think that Aquaria is one of the best and certainly the most ambitious indie games I've played (and I have played a lot of indie games for years now).  And I say that even though I have many of the same problems with the game that other people do.  I thought that a handful of situations in the game pushed me beyond challenging (which I like) and became frustrating (which I don't like).  However, I also realize that that has to be a very, very fine and arbitrary line and I would hate to be a developer trying to determine where that line was.  And then I also had a slight problem with direction in the game and I really only had a problem with that in the beginning.  What got me on that point was not that I wasn't being led around, but that, when I didn't know where to go or what to do, the sheer number or hostile creatures (some of them particularly powerful) could really hinder my exploration and, especially in the beginning when my character was very weak, exploration was very frustrating for me and not enjoyable because I was having trouble maintaining my health. 

With that being said, I was really amazed every moment that I played that so few people had created such a great game.  I think it would be very sad if criticism caused you to become discouraged and not continue to work on the game.  Right now I consider the game to only be a hair short of falling directly into the ranks of the classic games that it took influence from (and I don't think there is any way that you could have reasonably hoped to fall within the ranks of games like super metroid, at least not in my mind).  So, with that being said, I would very much like to see you respond to some of the more prevalent complaints made by the community.  You are a indie developer though so I don't guess you're in any way required to listen to the community and if you're perfectly pleased with the game then...fine.  The game is your business and not mine.  You did a great job with it.

[dhakkel]

But the thing is, the complaints are all about stuff that revolve around opinions. Hardly any of them are actual flaws that you can fix without pissing off a lot of people. If they made the game any easier than it already is (ie: pretty damn easy once you get used to the controls) you would alienate a lot of people while pleasing a lot of other people.

Unfortunately it's the old cliché: it's impossible to please everyone. A lot of people are pleased with Aquaria. A lot of people aren't. As with anything, the people that aren't are a lot louder than the people who are.

Introducing stuff like easy mode would be a good idea if it's easy, but if you'd have to go through the entire game and change all the enemies then that's a lot of work. I'm not sure if it'd be worth it.

[Plaid Phantom]

I can definitely say one thing: this is the game Alec and Derek wanted to make, and it exceeds all of my expectations.  The difficulty, I think, stayed just on this side of the "difficulty horizon".  The only times I found myself hitting the forums were times where I incorrectly fell to the strategy that other games had taught me: shoot it till it's dead / if that doesn't work shoot it in the *right spot* until it's dead / if that doesn't work, shoot it at the *right time* until it's dead.  The only times that failed me was (1) the Mithalan god and (2) the final boss's final form.  (1) was because I hadn't realized that I could even grab the frog things.  Maybe if I had thought a bit deeper on Naija's telling of the Mithalans giving it sacrifices and such (was that before or after the boss?), or if there had been some occasion for me to discover that they could be grabbed.  (2) confused me because I hadn't thought of using the sun form at all, since I'd not had any use for it besides seeing in the darkness up to that point.   Perhaps some sort of "giant eye" monster in the Abyss could have had a similar weakness (say, swinging an armored tentacle around when it saw an attack coming but blinded by a charged flash).

Rather than changing the game at all, I would say that some sort of hint system might be more appropriate.  Press a key and a context-sensitive hint pops up, or Naija recalls a memory or thinks out loud or something.  That way they aren't spoiling the game for those who want the challenge, but those who are downright stuck could get a push in the right direction.  There was something of this when you journeyed into the Abyss without a light and Naija made a comment on it.

Anyway, hitting the forum for help created a sort of community feel to the whole experience which I personally thought was great.

Oh, and Alec: if you're being evenly compared with games that had ten or twenty times as many developers and a (probably) similarly scaled budget, you have no business being disappointed.   Especially if you're being compared favorably.

[broknecho]

Style of video games are just like tastes in food....everyone has different likes and dislikes.

I play all sorts of genres of games but have grown bored of the mainstream titles.  Since Bioshock was mentioned, this particular title has held about 3 hours of my attention.  Bioshock is in no way a bad game but the linear gameplay just doesn't do it for me anymore.  Even how Bioshock has amazing visuals and spot on controls, it fails to capture my attention.  Everyone is different.

The mithalas boss did have me stumped for quite some time.  But I also liked that.  Think of it this way: You are exploring the vast ocean in Aquaria.  You come across something that seems impassible.  Now lets say you try beating the boss a few times and fail.  (about 15 deaths for me) And then you actually take a break from the game and think about the problem.  This particular gameplay is next to non-existent in games today.  Take Call of Duty 4.   The second you stopped to look at your surroundings, an mark comes up in your HUD rushing you to go on.

I'm not sure if anyone played Zak & Wiki for the Wii but this game has been an failure in the sales charts because the puzzles make you think.  The graphics were too cute to appeal to the mass GTA crowd of gamers and the puzzles were too hard for the gamers who actually picked it up.

Game companies have setup the future of gaming by holding the hand of gamers.  It's quite annoying.

On another note, after reading this whole thread, i did not see anyone mention that there is a form in Aquaria that is resistant to spikes.....it makes it a lot easier (like 100% easier) to get to the sun temple boss.

[Glamador]

Wait....WHAT!?  What form is that!?

[broknecho]

Just think of the form that can CREATE spikes.

[Sirensongstress]

Nature <3 I almost posted something about that earlier, actually, but forgot. I really really like the Nature form, even if she doesn't really have a "real" direct attack.

Happy playing

[Lambchops]

Of course, then the sun boss threw me for a loop   In the end I just gathered all my healing/defensive items and tried to wear the boss down...and it worked.

Snap.

The Sun Boss was the only one where I asked for help here. I was sure I was missing some sort of trick like the ones used to beat the previous bosses. As it turned out I just suck at being patient and at dodging! A few healing items and spicy rolls later and I was on my way.

I didn't find the difficulty too steep. Of course puzzle wise I've been brought up on a diet of Lucas Arts adventure games, so the age old tactics of "if logical thinking fails you explore EVERYWHERE and use EVERY ability on EVERYTHING until you get the answer" are well ingrained in my gaming style! That said I didn't have to resort to them too often, I personally though most of the puzzles and boss strategies made sense, even if a couple took me a bit longer to figure out.

Plus as someone else mentioned it was fun to return to the areas which you ran through panicking in the early game desperate to get to the next save point as you were being chased by a bunch of sea creatures out to get you(providing a nice fun challenge early on in the game) to being a breeze later on when you had all the forms and were more adept at controlling Naija effectively. Then the challenge came in the depths of the abyss and the body.

That's the way things should be, the areas that were a challenge earlier become easier as new more challenging areas open up. It's something games like the Zelda series and Outcast (have to mention it as it's the most underrated game ever!) did exceptionally well and Aquaria more or less got it right.

The other thing I feel Aquaria got right was the rewards being worth the challenge. The first time I used beast form to eat something after the Mithalas boss, I just thought "WOW awesome. Beating that boss was totally worth it." Same went for finally getting the Urchin helmet (it was a really handy item in the early stages).

So yeah Aquaria isn't for everyone, but is any game?

[DragonXVI]

But yeah, I guess that's the nice thing about working at a big company. They can test everything with 100s of people so everyone can play it, all the bumps are smoothed out. Its kinda stupid to try to make a game with 2 people and think that people could actually enjoy it all the way through.

There'll always be bugs and things wrong with *Any* game - None are perfect, and none should ever claim to be.  Everyone wants something different and bigger companies are more or less often limited to pleasing the majority: With indie games you can please whoever you want with the game, ideally starting with yourself

The other nice thing about a big company is the angry screaming and shit-flinging gets directed at the company itself and not its employees. So you can just work a 9-5 and head home and forget about it. You don't have to deal with people wanting to destroy you on a daily basis.

I dunno, I'm sure Peter Molyneux, Will Wright and that lot get their fair share of "Zomg! Teh Sims is lawlgeh!", but granted when you put names to a company suddenly there becomes some unshielded entity to attack and blame for things they don't like.

Usually they're called PR people

Also, big companies have teams that actually show up to work. They don't decide to take 3 days off when a game is released and not tell you about it and leave you having to deal with all the work.

Always remember big companies consist of human beings too y'know :p WIth their own needs and personalities.  Granted they're expected to act within a bit of proffessionalism but nobody is perfect.

Getting back to the topic, Often a game does many things wrong but at least get's 1 or 2 things right.  While I don't agree with Aquaria's often vague puzzles/boss battles (Heck, I've gone through the Myst series sans any walkthrough and i still had trouble here ), I had the same problem with some of the puzzles from the Monkey Island series and that didn't stop me loving the games (Except Monkey Kombat. It can go to hell...)

Point is: while there are a few flaws with Aquaria, there are flaws with every game.  The only thing I could recommend for some of the more complex bosses is a few hints from Naija - If the player hasn't done any damage what-so-ever, you could throw out a "This isn't working... Maybe I should try..." after a few minutes.  A couple've points I'm noticing are quite popular for confusion are the Eye-Monsters in the Cathedral, Mithala, The Final Boss's 5th form, Li, and a bit of navigation.  But again this is up to you: If you want more people to enjoy your game, a hint system'll help.

Ahh Outcast. It to had a hidden dance track featuring voice samples from the game :p I'd almost say that's mandatory in games now...