Opening up default Aquaria adventure in Editor / making world easier

[DavidBeoulve]

DESIRE:
I want to either gain access to the LUA files that make the core game run or get the actual game into the editor in order to:

• Make the game easier (either by less damage, more save points, more health, more damage reduction, whatever means is easiest).
• Learn more.

DATA STRUCTURE:
Apparently everything it saved in  the giant "data.000" pack file, but I don't know how to unpack it. In Supreme Commander one can just use WinRAR (doesn't work on this, I tried) and whatever you unzip the game uses in place of what is in the pack file. I assume that something similar can be done with Aquaria because I have read that MODs supersede all else. The first hump is just finding the LUA script files so I can examine them and see if there's a few things I can tweak to make my wife and I able to play.

HOW DO I (either one):

• Gain access to the core game's script files to make changes to damage models or the health system.
• Get the core game into the editor.

Thanks so much guys.

[Alec]

Do you even own the game?

If so, please PM your order info and I won't mind helping you out as much.

Anyways, yeah. I don't know about modding the main game. We could just make an "easy mode" ourselves which would make a lot more sense than copying all the content into a mod.

Also I disagree with your interpretation. Games aren't just to be sat and watched. The interaction is crafted and its also part of the art. Ripping it out without the consideration of the creators is violating the intentions behind it, IMO.

[Don Andy]

Well, I initially wanted to do something similar, but I now just went with doing a complete "new" game by itself, instead of remodeling the original to be easier.

[Quemaqua]

It's an interesting point, and I do feel there's some merit to it.  Why did I play so much World of Warcraft?  I assure you it wasn't the gameplay.  It was fun building a character, but really what I was there for was being able to spend time with friends who live far away, and because I wanted to see the world.  It was a cool world with tons of stuff in it, and that's a really big draw.  I took thousands of screenshots (same thing with Oblivion -- I have a whole huge photo album of like 1800 shots or something).

That said, I don't agree that the two should be separate.  I feel like they should be mingled, which to me is exactly what Aquaria, like many good action/adventure games before it,  finds the perfect balance of.  It isn't hard as nails, but it's a far cry from "easy", and that makes everything -- and I mean everything from the emotional impact of the story to feelings of achievement to the discovery of new environments and creatures -- so much more meaningful.  If you could just swim there, see it, and leave, what would be the point?  Challenge, in my opinion, is an inherent facet of what drives the emotional experience in a game.  It involves you and stresses you and makes you work for it, which is exactly the thing that books and movies can never do, hence never personally investing you in nearly the same fashion.

That said, I think an easier mode for this would be pretty great.  As I've stated, my wife just adores everything from the art to the story and characters, and she's hooked just watching me play, which again lends credence to seeing being a big part of the experience, but she still really wants to play and it frustrates her that she can't because she knows the game will be too difficult for her.  But the main experience for the average player should never be compromised, so IMO games that are built to be too easy so that they can accommodate more players will always be gaming failures.  If you want to add modes for those who want super-duper hard play and for those who want easier play because they just don't have the coordination or lengthy history of playing games that the rest of us do, that's great!  Just make sure you first aim for the best overall experience for the average player (which I think Aquaria does perfectly, as I said).

So yeah, this has gotten lengthier than I intended, but it's an interesting topic.  To summarize - I think challenge is an inherent part of games, but if people can build multiple tiers of that challenge for those who simply can't hack it, that's a pretty cool thing.  But the base experience needs to be the primary focus, and if push comes to shove and making an "easy" mode is going to somehow detract from balancing the primary mode properly, it should be canned or released in a patch or something instead of wasting development time on it.

[DavidBeoulve]

I didn't mean to step on your toes, Alec. You've put years of work into this. I didn't mean games become works of quasi-interactive fiction, either.

Have some kids, get a little older, have less time - but that'd be really sad if that happened to you anytime soon because you wouldn't have created this.

Best thing to do is appreciate people for who they are, because that's how they do the magic they do day to day.

I should have left out all of my reasoning. So stupid of me, I've been on teh interwebs for a while - oh, wait... it's my nature to be open bleh, rarely serves me well.

[Alec]

I don't think the storyline would make much sense if the difficulty was made so that someone could just "sleep" through the game. The game as a whole just wouldn't gel.

An alternate game/mod using some of the same content but a different storyline and gameplay focus makes more sense to me. And I'm quite willing to put some time into helping make that with anyone's who's interested! (its Don Andy's initiative) I think that would be a cool way to let people experience the game who otherwise wouldn't be able to get through it.

[DavidBeoulve]

You are one of the principle creators; you'd know best how your work should be experienced. I mean that truthfully. Logically, I'll point out that not everyone (I can tackle the game, my wife can't) can experience it the same way, but that just means it's a game for me, not her, kind of like any game that has a higher difficulty curve, such as, say an FPS. The music and indie dev reading got me expecting something "not hard," so when I handed it to her, I found I was wrong. Not your problem, no game can be all things. Some try, and they pretty much all suck.

I've removed the reasoning in my initial post to remove anyone else's desire to get into a debate.

[Alec]

Well I don't see what's wrong with having a debate about it. I mean we don't have to agree on that point, I'm just explaining how I see it.

But yeah, I think an easy version would be cool. I just think it should be its own alternate storyline as well so it'll feel more like its own thing. The main game's storyline get's pretty intense and if the gameplay doesn't get intense to match, it'll be kinda weird. So the alternate story could be more chill.

[DavidBeoulve]

I realized, upon rumination, that Aquaria strikes the same sort of cord as a game that has never left me: Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Now, aside from the rainbow shield, nothing took the difficulty out of that game, and it simply would not be the same without it. You explored, you gained new abilities, you got a neat story, music good enough to listen to away from the game (well, certainly pieces) and 2d sprites that just made you feel at home.

My wife mostly plays Brain Age so it's not like she'll lose any sleep over all of this

And the reason I don't care for debates on teh interwebs is because they generally all occur and end in the same way: people take turns standing on the table yelling and waving their baggage in the air, and then sit back down. Rarely, folks are open, usually, they just feel somehow personally attacked. It's human nature. It's often a case of person A has 12 years of history on the subject and person B comes along with misguided idea, or just a completely different background, that is at direct odds with what person A knows to be true, but you can't fit 12 years of learning in a forum post, and person B, coming from a different culture if not field of education, a different personality type if not different agenda, will usually respond in kind, and then you get persons C, D, E, F & G responding thanks to the magic of teh interwebs.


Me? I decided to learn something. Here, I decided that A) what I posted was inane because of what Alec pointed out. B) That I really should avoid stating reasons for anything, because that's extra stupid of anyone who knows what I stated in the paragraph above. C) I should think about C: SoTN some more and then attack Aquaria again.

[Alec]

I still don't see what's wrong with trying to have a debate?

I mean if its your opinion that games should be more open and easy for people to get through, that's cool. I'd like to make a game that my Aunt could at least play and not feel threatened by. If I could make a game that would interest my Mom and that she could actually get through, while at the same time also being interesting to me, I'd be a happy dude.

I just don't think Aquaria is that kind of game. (nor was it ever intended to be, for better or for worse)

But again, a mod could be!

[Hiro]

I think the ability to put the main game into a mod as a base would be good. For making different difficulty mods and stuff, and also for just doing graphical changes to the game without changing anything else or something.

What I was kinda expecting (not saying that it would be good!) was that any mod would be a mod of the main game, so to make a whole new game with new story you would just have to remove/redraw all the maps and stuff.

But yeah, I would like to be able to make a mod that was the main game, with only minor tweaks.

[DavidBeoulve]

Alec: Because interweb debates fail to accomplish anything but time and energy spent. But I agree with your points; I'll follow your lead.

Hiro: Or for just figuring out how to do things. But the general feeling I get is that cracking open the DATA.000 file is something our talented developers do not want (humor). It would be immensely useful - you could learn how things are done (especially if a future version of the editor has a "properties" window for each object so you can see what it's settings are more easily), and you could go "Half-Life" on it.

It would allow the community to come up with harder mods, a "more magic" mod or a "less projectiles" mod or a "Zaxby's Culinary Delights" mod or even a casual mod.

But that requires the developers giving up the idea of retaining complete control over what's in that DATA.000 file and saying "Well, once someone opens it up, it's theirs to tinker with. But you know what? That's kind of beautiful, that we've inspired someone to do..." and then just think of all the mods that could come out. Think of how the community would feed itself, and upon itself, and how this single pearl would generate so much. People would talk more, and more sales would follow. It's the Half-Life or Neverwinter Nights effect, both of which had their campaign worlds open to modding, if not at the start (NWN), eventually.

Alec: You'd be a happy dude once you saw how much time folks are willing to put into your game for free. I watched it for 3 years with NWN, lived it every week (I have four kids, no such thing a "every day"). Sure there are abrupt and angry idiots out there, but think of it...

If I'm wrong about your stance with the DATA.000 file, that's a happy day for me.

Hopefully I haven't inspired the wrath of The Internets this time. Dave out.

[Alec]

I don't have a problem with it, its more like I'd rather encourage people to make their own mods because I think ultimately it would be more interesting and worthwhile than hacking the main game.

[Alphasoldier]

I actually disagree to put the main game into a mod, people would change little things of the game and most of the time to make it easier, and that pretty much ruins gameplay. If there should be a easy mode I'd suggest only more health for you and less health for the baddies and maybe even a hard mode, less health for you and more health for the baddies.
And not to shove it all to your side Alec, but I do think you should be the only one making this.

[barret232hxc]

I find the difficulty fun and challenging and it is half the fun of the game just being able to figure out where to go and what to do and using recipes to restore health so I can make it when I am low on health.

but in terms of marketability I do believe the standard difficulty of the game may be narrowing the market for which this game could reach. By adding what I like to call a casual mode would open this game up to alot more people.

I think the game since it's so pretty appeals to alot of people simply for it's artistic style. Now I know this is not why the game was originally developed to be some pretty thing to look at. I love the way the game was developed but if you want to make more $ hahaha which I think you all deserve and the price $30 including a full amazing game plus the tools to create your own game is a bargain in my opinion.

I think my gf would really like this game is the difficulty was a little easier bc she hates underwater and I love anything to do with water. I was on the swim team for like 13 yrs lived by a lake and went skiing , sailing, jet-skiing, and to the beach all the time. So of course the underwater theme is very sexy to me.

I wasn't expecting her to like the game due to the underwater theme, but even her hate for water couldn't hold her back from commenting how beautiful and fun the game looked. Also she tends to do better on games when they have that easy or casual setting.  I think she would love aquaria but at it's current difficulty she'd probably get a lil frustrated.

I know this would require some work , I mean technically you can just change how much damage the attacks take and the health you receive but would it be balanced and would it be too easy or would it still be fun for more casual gamers.  So if anything like this ever happens I think aquaria would reach a much larger audience and I said about making money and I know it's not all about that b/c you can see the passion pouring out in every aspect of this game.

Anyways I just love aquaria and I want everyone in the world to be able to experience it I'm happy with how it is.
Also I must comment the support is top notch. I can't believe you guys are able to keep up with everything knowing that you must be extremely tired since you just shipped the game.