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Author Topic: Aquaria hit the P2P  (Read 111030 times)

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Offline Zam

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2008, 05:15:36 pm »
My option on the matter is that pirating is wrong.

That being said, when a gamemaker is no longer supporting a game/selling it, it's pretty reasonable to torrent it.

The bottom line though, is that pirating opens up the game to people who wouldn't otherwise buy it. They'll tell they're friends, they might be guiltied into it, and when the next big bitblot game comes out, they're going to be ready. It's not something to encourage, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Offline Fynn

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2008, 03:08:32 am »
This is pretty funny.  How can you take the moral high ground and still admit to this?  If you use torrents to download something you shouldn't have, then you did bad.  Don't sugar coat it or try to hide it with these flimsy justifications.  Best to just man up, or keep quiet.

I think it's the ultimate in irony when there's comments from people saying "Please buy this game" or "Support the developers" under an Aquaria torrent file.  Suddenly they develop a conscience about short-changing Alec and Derek, but seem to be fine with carrying on downloading all the other stuff on the site.

Quote from: Dencore
I'm sorry but stealing a game from indie devs is ridiculous. Sure I download torrents all the time, but it's stuff that I can't get anyother way (PlaneScape Torment) or from a company that has made alot of money from the game (StarCraft).

Makes me mad!

As far as I know, you can still find Planescape: Torment on eBay or even in bargain bins.  Does the auction seller or store owner not deserve your business? And doesn't Blizzard still deserve to make money on their own creation, whether you think they deserve it or not?  Why not just own up to the fact that you're taking the path of least resistance (and least payment)?

Quote from: Glamador
The only thing I download nowadays are legal torrents, foreign things that I couldn't get any other way, and anime.  I refuse to purchase anime in stores because it is HORRIFYINGLY overpriced.  25 dollars for less than 2 hours of content?  You can get a 2 hour movie for 10-15 bucks depending on its age.  As far as cost per minute, anime pricing is atrocious.

There are places to order imports, but it would require knowing where to look, and money of course.  Anime costs too much to justify obtaining it legally? This is different from the people who pirate movies and games, how? If it costs more than a movie, then why not just buy a movie instead? 

Quote from: Alphasoldier
I use torrents for:
1. Movies, the Cinema's here are HELLISH expensive and yes I go there from time to time and alot of Movies are not worth their money.
2. Games that I already own or have owned and lost for any reason.
3. Games that have no demo. I just want to try it and most of the time if I like it I buy the original afterwards.
4. Games who aren't worth their value in the stores. Short and ugly games.
5. Music. Somehow I never bought a actual Music CD or a Album or anything else, even thouhg I love to listen to music. Must be because Napster existed in the time that I got into the internet and downloading.

Yes I use torrents alot, but all that I actually do with it doesn't really seem all that illegal, more likely righteous, besides the music... but who doesn't do that? I mean those singers are already rich enough, no need to give them more money. =p

1. So you wanted to watch the movie, but just didn't feel like paying for it.  Okay.
2. This might make you feel okay, but read the description about torrents below.
3. You must be made of greater moral fiber than many others I know.  Most people would just stop once they have the game.
4. Isn't this what the whole situation is revolving around? (Aquaria hitting P2P I mean, short and ugly may not apply)
5. Again, you want the music, but don't want to pay for it.

Even if you try to justify your own reasons for downloading something, this won't hold up in court.  Every time you connect to a torrent, you're just helping other people get the same thing, which kind of makes you an accomplice to the crime.  How did it go?  Some lady was found sharing 12 songs on Kazaa or something and got sued by the RIAA for $200,000, even though her room was filled with CDs she paid for.  But hey, at least you saved a few bucks and you're not padding the wallets of those millionaire singers, right?  Just hope that you never get caught.

Quote from: Zam
My option on the matter is that pirating is wrong.

That being said, when a gamemaker is no longer supporting a game/selling it, it's pretty reasonable to torrent it.

The bottom line though, is that pirating opens up the game to people who wouldn't otherwise buy it. They'll tell they're friends, they might be guiltied into it, and when the next big bitblot game comes out, they're going to be ready. It's not something to encourage, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Sounds like the "abandonware" argument.  If you can't find it in a store, it's free.  But what happens to the copyright holders, who might be thinking of re-releasing the game?  They probably just lost a lot of sales.  What about the brick and mortar stores that paid the developer for the game, but never got to sell it?  If you try to draw the line somewhere on when you can or can't download something, there will always be an argument to draw a new line closer.

The company isn't selling the game anymore?  There's no way to help their business, I should be able to download it.
The game costs $80?  That's too much, I should be able to download it.
There's only 100 copies in existence?  I'll never be able to find it, I should be able to download it.
I already had the game, but lost it or traded it away?  I already paid for it once, I should be able to download it.

You can go on as long as you like.  There is no "legal" way to do this, and the sooner you realize it, the sooner you'll see that these lines are just the limits of our conscience.  But whatever helps you sleep at night.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 03:17:40 am by Fynn »

Offline Glamador

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2008, 04:00:22 am »
Did I say it would hold up in court?  Nope.  Why don't I buy a movie instead of an anime?  Becuase I wanted an anime NOT a movie that's why.  It's not the path of least resistance, it's because absortitant prices have completely barred me from doing one of the things I love to do, watch anime.  I'm stealing it.  Plain and simple.  If they want to price their product so high that the people who want to buy it can't without starving, then I'm not giving them that satisfaction.  Also, I do purchase anime overseas or from eBay.  But that's in japanese, and I prefer it in english.

In short, when it comes to anime, I'm not taking any kind of moral high ground at all.  I don't download anything else illegally IF I CAN HELP IT.  I always go out of my way to buy things legally, if the situation warrants it.  But I'm not going to continue to defend my actions, because what you think doesn't matter.  I'm essentially a very selfish person, with a moderately good sense of morality.  I know full well that if I don't support these products somehow, then they will cease being made, and that is the LAST thing I want.

This...game...ROCKS!
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Offline inkblob

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2008, 05:22:26 am »
welcome to the forum Fynn, glad you joined just to admonish everyone.  is this a clever 'belly of the whale' reference to Pinocchio? didn't know which way to turn but now our conscience, Jiminy is here.
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Offline Alphasoldier

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2008, 10:01:38 am »
Heh, Welcome and Goodbye.

Seriously man, only coming on here to rant against people, what's the next thing, report this topic to the cops and tell them to track us?

I download movies because Cinema's are expensive, we used to pay 5f that's like.. 2.60€ now, you know what we pay for it nowadays? 12.50€ for the simple movies, while there are also movies of 15€ and 20€, so please, I really think I have all right to actually download 2 or 3 movies with every movie I watch in the Cinema, and I also buy A LOT of DVDs we have LOADS of them.

Further about the games, If I owned a game and I cracked the CD or in any case I think I really have the RIGHT to actually download that game again. Even though at a lot of times I didn't. I bought 5 copies of Tiberian Sun. At this very moment I own one of the two CDs that is NEEDED to play the game. Yes, I could go search for the game, buy it AGAIN and lose more money while I only play it for a while. Sometimes I feel like playing the old classics, if I can't find my CD, my CD is broke or just doesn't work I DOWNLOAD the game. And if someone can point me out that I'm wrong with that I'll change my whole freaking life and never pirate again.

Further on the music, yes, I know it's wrong, yes I know I shouldn't do it, and no it's not a excuse that other people do it too, I know that. I just refuse to search months for a CD that I can just download through torrents or P2P.

You make really good points, I know but this isn't the year 2000 anymore. People pirate, things get hacked, period. There is little you can do about it. Until a super-genius shows up, takes the right side and builds a super anti hack thing, things WILL get hacked and people will get things free.

So far humanity isn't as near as criminal-free and it won't be like that in a long time.
God sees and knows everything, but at least he won't gossip about it.

Offline Xiagan

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2008, 10:13:01 am »
He made his point and that's his right as it is for everyone else too, so no need to become rude.
The fact that cinemas or anime is too expensive may be true, but that doesn't make it right to steal movies or anime. I don't care if you do it, but justifying it to yourself and then attacking others who point out the truth is bad style.
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Offline Cruxx

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2008, 11:45:31 am »
Sure, it was a rant but it had a grain of truth in it. You can't really pretend to be all holy and righteous by saying " ooh i torrent off only big horrible companies like Blizzard or EA because they deserve it and not indie games" You torrent, your a pirate. I'm not saying im the honest peter pan here either. Its just that you cant justify yourself by saying i torrent  off people who deserve it and because its too expensive. You/we are just as bad as the people who torrent off indie gaming.

Offline Alphasoldier

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #97 on: February 11, 2008, 01:16:20 pm »
I never justified it for myself and even said he was right.

MY opinion however is that I am not going to pay way too much for that stuff while itś not worth their money, that is why I pirate.
God sees and knows everything, but at least he won't gossip about it.

Offline Cruxx

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #98 on: February 11, 2008, 01:25:20 pm »
I use torrents for:
Blah blah

Yes I use torrents alot, but all that I actually do with it doesn't really seem all that illegal, more likely righteous, besides the music... but who doesn't do that? I mean those singers are already rich enough, no need to give them more money. =p

 Sounds like justification to me dude.

Offline sMull

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #99 on: February 11, 2008, 03:28:48 pm »
Those using software illegally are thiefs, plain and simple. Justify it any way you want, you are stealing other people's work.

Offline Glamador

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #100 on: February 11, 2008, 06:00:58 pm »
Well, I suppose I did try to justify it, but I know it's illegal.  But you should think about why laws are made in the first place.  If I could send a check for 50 bucks to the makers of every anime I download I would.  Because 50 bucks is about what it's worth (especially considering you can watch these things on basic cable in Japan).  But spending over 200 dollars on something I could watch for free just because of where I live?  I think not.  But like I said, I know stealing is wrong on a basic level, and like I said as well, I try to pay for things when I can, and like I said, I take this position uniquely for this subject matter.  I do not download movies, I do not download games (except for specific reasons stated above, where I am perfectly within my rights to), and I do not download music.  So thank you for the lesson in morality.

But also, I don't necessarily agree with Alpha's concept either...stealing is going to happen anyway so why not it be me?  That's just plain wrong.  At least I HAVE a reason.  That's better than nothing.

This...game...ROCKS!
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Offline Alphasoldier

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #101 on: February 11, 2008, 10:36:14 pm »
See that thong, Cruxx? It means it a joke. And I said it seems like that.

And yes, I also buy alot and enough things, even the stuff that isn't worth their money. I just thought to be honest here without being looked down upon by "perfect" people.

Pirating exists because people scam you. If everything would be honest and worth their value, pirating wouldn't exist.
God sees and knows everything, but at least he won't gossip about it.

Offline Zam

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #102 on: February 11, 2008, 10:43:54 pm »
Fynn, if a developer were to re-release something, then It would be with something new added into it. When they stop selling games (old sharewaregames) you can't buy it from someone else. Also, pirating old games once the producer/liscence holder stops selling them does not in any way hurt the developer. Only walmart, when they don't make quite as many sales.

Which I couldn't be assed about, to be honest.

Offline inkblob

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #103 on: February 12, 2008, 10:27:18 am »
it's all well and good to quote AlphaSoldier, Glamador and anyone else who posted their views on downloading media and tear them a new one, it's quite easy too. they chose to be honest, and it's rather refreshing to see someone say openly their views on a matter.  they did not have to post their views, but being so honest about something like this it will attract do-gooder copynistas who think the most important thing plauging the world is intellectual property infringment.  (c) laws are different in different states and countries and are in a great state of flux. artists and companies are meeting the new marketplace head on with new methods of selling their product. Radiohead let the buyers choose how much to spend on their new album and it became the top selling album in the US.  I'm finding the people waving the flaming flag of copyrights are generally douches, they arn't the nicest people to begin with and here's a great cause to be twit pretty much anywhere. sure there is currently legal backing, but in many countries it's either unenforced, unenforcable or going to change. pirates who are douches should be busted, those who download the whole net and redistribute it without a care for where it came from, but lay off the college kid who brings down the hard to get album or someone who dosn't want to be gouged seeing an ok movie.  in my day to day real life, I've yet to run into someone who dosn't pirate something on some level. that's including businesses, students, parents, neighbours, everyone who the topic has come up. everyone seems to have their own line in the ethical beach, some draw it at no music, some at not their music, some just their music, some just the cds they bought, some don't care.

what's important here is that people are finding out about the game, sometimes through pirated copies and then going out and buying it for whatever reason. I personally wasn't guilted, I support good products and buy software that's been useful or very entertaining to me. I'd never be motivated by guilt, some might be, but if my guess is that if anyone saw this product and authentically liked it they would be buying it out of support and appreciation. my original point was I got to this game via p2p exposure, so it's not all doom, there is an unquantifiable effect of it being out there in the wild. but really, those people who are impulse pirating it would not have bought the game anyways, so they are at least getting exposure to it and their friends might see it ( like in my case ) so hard to say if it's really impacting sales at all, helping out or breaking even.
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Offline Alphasoldier

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Re: Aquaria hit the P2P
« Reply #104 on: February 12, 2008, 11:23:56 am »
Thank you Inkblob.

And yes also in the dutchlands the police aims more against big time pirates then personal use ones, but it's still illegal and I know that. Just like the damned intro that the modern movies have now with the "You wouldn't steal this and you wouldn't steal that, well pirating is stealing too." short. I bet everyone knows it's stealing, but as far as I know, if it's easy, everyone steals. And again I'm not trying to justify myself here, I'm just making a point. Getting free stuff easily, if it's illegal or not, people will do it. Anyone would pick up money from the floor if it's worth it.

Yes, I torrent a lot, but I buy way more then I torrent.

At this moment I have 23 official Wii games, while I could've got it hacked seeing I don't use the internet on it anyway.
God sees and knows everything, but at least he won't gossip about it.