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Author Topic: Applauding the DRM removal  (Read 24311 times)

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Offline Flatfrogger

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 07:46:40 am »
I don't think that I
I'm a fairly "extreme" anti-DRM guy, but that's mostly because it amazes me what freedoms people are willing to give up in exchange for... nothing.  What Alec said basically sums up my entire viewpoint very succinctly.  Well spoken.
was saying whether drm was effective against piracy or not, I believe my comment was that people who rant about drm are usually informed pirates which of course is just encouraging my conclusions here.

See, IMO and probably others that a dangerous statement, why? because as much as you are saying you don't agree with DRM you are saying those who stand against it are pretty much pirates, well informed ones at that. If thats the case why bother saying you support the view, when you are mocking them later on for it? Someone has to stay clued up on it otherwise the whole thing regarding DRM would have just floated under the bridge with bioshock and we'd all be having a horrible time with the smallest of games. Ignorance doesn't get you anywhere.

As I said since DRM is pretty much as pathetic as regular copy protection surely pirates are welcoming it as it often ends up cut through faster and they can keep their version until the world ends and never have to jump through activation hoops like legitimate consumers.

Theres plenty for people to disagree with DRM so branding everyone who disagrees with it as informed pirates is an utter joke. I'm sure if more of your average joe consumer caught wind of what they where buying with spore or (i'm assuming here) the sims 3 there would be a lot more who disagree with it.

Offline MedO

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2008, 12:11:00 pm »
The P-word has been uttered! Everyone state your opinion ere the people take to another view!

Er... I just want to say thank you for releasing the new version without DRM and data encryption as well, also because it's very easy now to listen to the music of the game while you're still producing the official Soundtrack. I just hope nobody rips graphics or sound effects from your game for their own productions now that they are so easily accessible.

Offline skrylar

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2008, 02:44:13 pm »
I just hope nobody rips graphics or sound effects from your game for their own productions now that they are so easily accessible.

I don't think that's ever been a really bad issue, it's usually just tiny pieces that get re-used if anything. Panic's truck icon for their FTP app has been recycled in to a couple shopping sites (they actually had a laugh about it on their site at one point) and Uplink reused a clicking noise from Dungeon Keeper (the copyright tag was still on the wav, lol)

Offline Quemaqua

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2008, 02:18:37 am »
I feel that way about acrobat, realplayer, .bmp, default notepad and image viewers and the start button. like crazy activist with a gasmask extreme

Dude, we should totally start a mob.  With, like, pitchforks and torches and stuff!

"All you get from killing monkeys is a deep sense of shame." - Alec

Offline Xiagan

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2008, 06:30:33 pm »
Stop pirating, start ninjaing!
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Offline Minus

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2008, 11:43:11 pm »
Pirate-it-before-I-buy-it kinda guy here.

I didn't pirate Aquaria because I think the demo adequately explained and showed exactly what the game was about. I wasn't aware of Aquaria prior to noticing it on sale at Steam, so I missed out on the DRM 'issue' entirely. However, given how light it sounds like it was, and Alec's attitude in this thread, I probably would never have minded the DRM had I purchased the non-Steam version.

I ended up buying the game through Steam yesterday.

The original post sounds inflammatory. I don't think that sort of tone is appropriate.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 11:44:55 pm by Minus »

Offline Xiagan

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2008, 12:47:35 pm »
The Minus comics are awesome. :) Welcome to the forums!
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Offline skrylar

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2008, 09:23:41 pm »
However, given how light it sounds like it was, and Alec's attitude in this thread, I probably would never have minded the DRM had I purchased the non-Steam version.
You are entitled to that decision, but I still must ask you at what point are you willing to "put your foot down" so to speak?

The original post sounds inflammatory. I don't think that sort of tone is appropriate.
I've already apologized about that; I tend to speak aggressively against what I feel is wrong or misguided. I've seen so much apathy about things that should be taken seriously lest they worsen.

I respected Bit-Blot for how they are interactive in their community, but activation is too far IMHO and they lost it. Taking it out has restored my respect for them, and so I wish to speak more effectively than a forum post by even buying a copy of their hard work. I also wanted to make sure that it was known that this choice was out of respect than simply a random sale.

Spreadsheets cannot show intent, which is what makes it nearly impossible to argue that DRM is "good". If a game fails due to DRM the writeoff is piracy and more DRM is added. If a game succeeds, DRM is praised as the reason and more is added. By buying a copy and posting a thanks, they can know. :)

Offline Minus

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2008, 09:48:03 pm »
However, given how light it sounds like it was, and Alec's attitude in this thread, I probably would never have minded the DRM had I purchased the non-Steam version.
You are entitled to that decision, but I still must ask you at what point are you willing to "put your foot down" so to speak?

I don't think activation-on-install is a consumer-unfriendly deal in 2008, when the internet is so pervasive. It can be used for valuable statistical data which would improve the product. It's fair. Software which phones home on every launch is unacceptable.

The original post sounds inflammatory. I don't think that sort of tone is appropriate.

I respected Bit-Blot for how they are interactive in their community, but activation is too far IMHO and they lost it. Taking it out has restored my respect for them, and so I wish to speak more effectively than a forum post by even buying a copy of their hard work. I also wanted to make sure that it was known that this choice was out of respect than simply a random sale.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the thread, but I felt it was necessary to point out how my opinion was different from the original post, since otherwise it could have been interpreted that I was in the same boat as you. So my last line was added as a sort of afterthought.

My feeling is that your original post spreads FUD about DRM in any form, no matter how simple it is. That's not how we are going to change the software world or reopen the second-hand market.  You have to rationally judge each usage of DRM in context. You came here and treated it like SecuROM. That's not rational, and your tone can invalidate your opinion, depending on the reader. I'm sorry to sound condescending, but for the sake of the cause we philosophically align with, please remember your audience.

Edit:
In the interest of preventing further FUD:
For the record, Aquaria never had internet-based activation.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:12:11 pm by Minus »

Offline Alec

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2008, 10:10:26 pm »
For the record, Aquaria never had internet-based activation.

Offline Delphion

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2008, 07:34:31 am »
Sorry if I am asking the obvious here, but is the Version 1.1.1 for Windows DRM free? Does that mean that I can have it simultaneously installed on my home PC, on my laptop, and on my work's PC, without any problems (and winthout being illegal)?

Offline Hawkey

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2008, 10:22:59 am »
Sorry if I am asking the obvious here, but is the Version 1.1.1 for Windows DRM free? Does that mean that I can have it simultaneously installed on my home PC, on my laptop, and on my work's PC, without any problems (and winthout being illegal)?

Yes we can....

I wan't to say: Yes you can  :D
(I even did this with the old Version 1.0.3, but I had to use the licence Key 2 times to activate the game)


Lets see what the coming Patch 1.1.2 fixes  ::)

Offline MedO

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2008, 12:25:56 pm »
Sorry if I am asking the obvious here, but is the Version 1.1.1 for Windows DRM free? Does that mean that I can have it simultaneously installed on my home PC, on my laptop, and on my work's PC, without any problems (and winthout being illegal)?

I'm not entirely sure because my legalese is not very good, but the license agreement says:
Quote
Bit Blot, LLC ("Bit Blot") hereby grants, and by installing the Program you thereby accept, a limited, non-exclusive license and right to install and use one (1) copy of the Program for your use on either a home, business or portable computer.

Point 8 says that you can make a copy for archival purposes, and for some other purpose which eludes me because I don't understand what it means:

Quote
8. Limitations on License. Nothing in this Agreement shall preclude you from making or authorizing the making of another copy of the Program provided, however, that (1) such new copy is created as an essential step in your utilization of the Program in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and for NO OTHER PURPOSE; or (2) such new copy is for archival purposes ONLY and all archival copies are destroyed in the event of your Transfer of the Program, the Termination of this Agreement, or other circumstances under which your continued use of the Program ceases to be rightful.

Can anyone clarify for those who want to know if it's legal?

Offline skrylar

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2008, 06:34:49 pm »
Quote
8. Limitations on License. Nothing in this Agreement shall preclude you from making or authorizing the making of another copy of the Program provided, however, that (1) such new copy is created as an essential step in your utilization of the Program in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and for NO OTHER PURPOSE; or (2) such new copy is for archival purposes ONLY and all archival copies are destroyed in the event of your Transfer of the Program, the Termination of this Agreement, or other circumstances under which your continued use of the Program ceases to be rightful.

Can anyone clarify for those who want to know if it's legal?
It says this agreement will not deny you the ability to make a backup copy or having someone else back it up for you as long as it's required (computer can't use it any other way) or it's for personal keeping. Personal copies have to be broken (or given along with) the legitimate version when you give it away or if Bit-Blot says you can't have it anymore.

This is all assuming the EULA is even legal in your state, in most states they aren't and it's entirely up to which circuit the dispute goes through as to if they're enforceable. Even if the state doesn't have EULAs, it still has copyright so you can't go giving out pirate copies just because the specific agreement is meaningless :)

Offline inkblob

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Re: Applauding the DRM removal
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2008, 12:11:31 am »
Quote from: EULA
6. Limitation of Liability. BIT BLOT SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR ... BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE ....

those are my 2 favourite, I'd like an illustrated real life example of how this game would make me loose goodwill. honestly, it makes you a better person. however totally get the work stoppage one and why they'd want to cover themselves on that
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