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Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2007, 10:28:58 am »
with small titles it's best to cover as many potential customers as you can.
While this IS true, you gotta realize, that by trying to port to linux Alec has to tack on quite a bit more time for coding the port, and when you consider that him and Derek have been working on this for so long, I doubt they want to tack on boring technical work just to appeal to a small niche of the market.

Time = work, work /= money. (I'd point Planescape: Torment as an example for that, so much work went into it and it got so little back, but then you'd probably just say something about how it's because it didn't natively run on Linux or something.)

Wait no. Maybe that last part went against what I was saying before. Ah well, fuck it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 10:30:58 am by Sherman Gill »
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Offline Zero_Dogg

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2007, 10:41:42 am »
I'd buy a proper port for certain. I wouldn't go near a Wine-port though.

Offline wesley

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2007, 11:33:14 am »
What do you think of this: irrKlang sound engine?
Runs on Windows and Linux. (Mac is not supported, but I'm guessing you already use Bass on Windows and Mac, so only linux needs another sound engine)
You can probably get away with the low-cost commercial version for 65
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Offline eNTi

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2007, 11:47:00 am »
i'd support a linux port.

as for the audio problem: you said, it would probably take you a month of coding to get it working with openal... even though i'm not a fan of that practise, it seems quite common, that the linux installer/game client is being delivered after the release of the game. you'd probably even find some ppl, that are willing to help you for free for that matter.

Offline fixxer.linux

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2007, 11:52:43 am »
(...)
We're indies. You think we need to be told that? You think we don't understand that?
(...)
Smarten up, or I'm going to start banning people. This is just silly.
(...)
Fuck.
(...)
I was actually getting interested about doing a Linux port, and you guys ruined it.
(...)


Okay, first of all, I absolutely didn't know that you were indies. And I ABSOLUTELY DON'T CARE.
You think I made a condescending post because I'm french and you are indies, inserting that because of that I better understand things than you ??  :o
I'm not racist in any way and I respect all the job you have made so far. I was just trying to explain MY opinion in YOUR forum that there are some past cases of really good development supported by what could be called a community.
I don't understand what "unsmart" things I could have said by expressing that opinion, and I see that by some way, your answer is "fucking" smart...
Anyway, I can understand that you've been shocked by what I've said, and if I've been outrageous, that definitely wasn't my point.

If I should be the guy that, with a single post in a forum, "ruined your willing of doing a linux port", I think that anyhow, you shouldn't be very interested in that.

Ban me if you want (if you should do so, thanks please to completely erase my account), I don't care.

I just wanted to answer about what have shocked me the most in your answer (bold-red in the quote) to let you know that this has not to be taken has a mark of racism from me. I think  I shouldn't have written that I was from France ?!?
Thanks.

Offline KingAl

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2007, 12:15:17 pm »
What's all this about racism?  :-\  Indies means 'independent' - i.e. they aren't signed on to or owned by a major production house.
Regardless, (and this'll be the second time I've said it this week) "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".

Offline fixxer.linux

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2007, 12:22:35 pm »
Oupssss !!!!

Sorry. I was thinking that "indies" meant "living in india", not "independants".


Offline RHLinuxGUY

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2007, 12:28:02 pm »
lol!  *sigh* I believe it's safe to say my collection of games this summer will be one game short for sure.

Offline cameron_morrison

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2007, 12:28:35 pm »
I have just looked at your trailer and the game looks beautiful, quirky, and fun.  I am looking forward to playing the demo, when it's available.

That said, I would like to see a linux port, so that I can play the game using my OS of choice.

However, if it is not going to be cost effective, you shouldn't do it.  I'm a software developer (not games), and I know that you need to decided if you will make that cash back, and that the general public do not realize that it's /not easy/ to port a title.  In this case it's going to be hard to decide as the audio libs you have selected do not work on Linux.  Maybe you should just take that piece of knowledge away from this, and use a lib that supports more platforms for the next game that you develop.

Anyway, I would like to play this game, and for me to do that I would have to buy a Linux version, so if possible, please do one if you can.

Cheers,
Cameron Morrison

Offline kawsper

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2007, 12:50:30 pm »
Ugh. The fanboys showed up  ::)

Linux isn't a ideology for me, its a platform where I can do anything in a fast and simple way, which is causing me less trouble in my everyday work. But i'm a little disappointed in BitBlot that thinks all Linux Users are a clone of 'Richard Stallman', and wants everything to be open and free (You know free as in freedom, not in price). We are not a bunch of pirates, just some that like to be more productive, and use the right tool for the right work.

With that being said i use both Windows and Linux. And if Aquaria came out for Linux, then i am one step further to switch to Linux completely. But it is Bit-Blot's game and they own the rights of it, and it is also their time, and money that are being used to create this.

However, my point is that this game is so awesome that i will buy and play it, no matter what. Go create whatever you feel is best, and don't let them push you into something just because they're threatening you with not buying your game.

Offline RHLinuxGUY

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2007, 12:56:02 pm »
Alec, have you thought about doing preorders?  A couple other companies did this. (RuneSoft and Linux Game Publishing)  Where if a certain number of orders were met, the game will be ported.  Not so much the case for Linux Game Publishig, (that's what they do...) but RuneSoft did that.  And it worked. (Got 200[or was it 400?] orders)

Offline shinygerbil

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2007, 01:04:45 pm »
Wow. What'd I miss? :O


This is, to be totally honest, something I've never seen in the Linux community. Perhaps I don't move in the right circles, but normally Linux users are more understanding than most when it comes to, for example, the difficulty of porting a game to another platform.

While I've only been using Linux for about 3 years, every single person I have met have treated me with the utmost politeness, and have always been forgiving and willing to help. All they ask for in return is that I speak, ask questions, and answer questions with some degree of intelligence.

This thread started out as a simple question about the feasibility/likelihood of a Linux port. (I myself dual-boot, so I will be buying the game no matter what. Even if I was Linux-only, I would buy the game to support you guys, because there is always the chance that I'll go back to dual-booting, or even just Windows, and I would like to play it.) I understand the mentality of Linux users when it comes to Wine - if you visit the Ubuntu forums' gaming section, I would say that more than 50% of the posts there are titled something like "lol im a newb how i get wow working on wine". The answers are almost always polite - even if it's just to say "use some initiative, and maybe read the FAQ, here's a link". But my point is, Wine is not good enough for games - when you have to go into a comandline and use an extra flag just to disable some audio debug messages which affect performance, it completely ruins the game experience. Having said that, a game which works *well* under Wine with no tweaking would be fine. For me, at least.

Alec, as has been mentioned here, Linux users are not all about free stuff. It's more about principles. The problem is, things like Windows and Office are very expensive to buy, and a lot of people don't feel that they are worth the money (quite rightly in the case of Windows ;) ). Especially when a bunch of guys is making an open-source equivalent which is just as good. The least you can do is support them by showing the world that you care. Indies are an extension of that ethic; the difference being that they try to make some commercial success. This isn't frowned upon in the slightest - everybody needs food on the table - and so, generally, if you've made something that's worth buying, we would be only too glad to give you something back by buying your game. I have been known to actually click on that Paypal "Donate" button that a lot of freeware devs have somewhere on their site, because I feel it's the least I can do. If something is shareware, even if you can use it for free indefinitely, I'll pay for it if I actually use it. :)

As for your audio problem, what will happen if you want to, for example, port it to the Wii? Will you have to change libraries then? If so, it may be worth waiting for a while until your options are more clear - release the game on Windows, see what happens, and come back and look at this, say, 3 months on. If a Wii (or any) port is forthcoming, that could be the perfect time to modify your code in such a way that would facilitate a Linux port. Of course, I'm speaking out of my ass here as a non-coder, so it's quite likely to be pure shite. :P

Another thing to take into account is the rarity of native Linux games. This actually works to your advantage. As good, native Linux games are like gold dust, nearly every Linux gamer will go out and get it because, well, it's a game, and it'll actually work on your system. Battle for Wesnoth is a perfect example - everyone plays it, because it's the only decent game out there.
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Offline gaminggeek

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2007, 01:19:20 pm »
Ok. This is half my fault. I saw this game thought man that game looks really cool I wonder if they are going to do a linux version.
So I told a friend from IRC (RHLinuxGUY) to post a news post to this game and this forum post http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2234
to try drum up support for linux and this game.
 I have bought indie games before that exsist on linux (Penumbra Overture, Gish and Spacetripper) because I found them to be inivitive or just plain fun.
 I have a feeling your game could be added to that list if it gets a linux port and I was hopping if we could show you that there are people who are passionate about linux AND good games you might consider spending some time doing a linux port. 

EDIT: http://osalp.sourceforge.net/ there is another sound lib that you can check out for the linux version.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2007, 01:27:51 pm by gaminggeek »

Offline wesley

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2007, 01:25:10 pm »
As for your audio problem, what will happen if you want to, for example, port it to the Wii? Will you have to change libraries then? If so, it may be worth waiting for a while until your options are more clear - release the game on Windows, see what happens, and come back and look at this, say, 3 months on. If a Wii (or any) port is forthcoming, that could be the perfect time to modify your code in such a way that would facilitate a Linux port. Of course, I'm speaking out of my ass here as a non-coder, so it's quite likely to be pure shite. :P

No, you actually make a very valid statement. The BASS audio library is only created for Windows and Mac OS X. The FMOD audio library (as an example) on the other hand works on 13 different platforms (including Windows, Mac OS X, Linux and Wii) I think the only real disadvantage with FMOD is the commercial price (it is free if your game is free, but costs 3000$ for the most basic license) But a port to Wii will need rewritten audio code, I'm pretty sure of that. Actually, I think more than just audio code has to be rewritten for the Wii, but I have no idea how the Wii works, so that's just a guess.
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Offline Coton

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Re: Supported Platforms
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2007, 02:08:34 pm »
Hi,

At first I wasn't going to bother posting this, but this game seems oddly enchanting. Kind of like Ecco the Dolphin meets Seiken Densetsu.

In any case, I'm a Linux user, and I'd love to get a proper port of this (i.e. no compatibility layer such as Wine), but in all likelihood that will never happen and sadly I'll never get to play this game. There are two major stumbling blocks that contribute to this:

1. You have a small team (1 person in this case) with little experience developing for Linux.
2. Cross platform wasn't an initial objective.

The latter is the real deal breaker here. If cross platform development isn't part of the initial specifications of the project it will take too long and consume too many resources to port it.

Which is a shame, since I'd definitely have bought this game, and no doubt would have enjoyed it. I'm much more console oriented since I stopped using Windows some seven years ago, but I still got all the usual suspects like Neverwinter Nights and UT2004 for Linux.

So I'm not going to ask for a port of this game. I'm instead going to ask Alec to consider cross platform development for future projects since this seems to be the major issue regarding a port to a minority platform, which would otherwise be justified if it didn't consume so many resources.

Just to finish off, did you take a look at how Google made the Picassa Linux port? It's basically the original Windows executable bundled with Wine and hammered into working transparently (i.e. as a single package). I didn't even notice this at first until I listed the running processes. Not something ideal, but certainly a path which would present less resistance.