I have found a word describing Aquaria's ending

[Zixinus]

Before you contiue reading, this tread aims to discuss the ending of Aquaria.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WallBanger

Something went wrong in the writing. The writer asked for too much Willing Suspension Of Disbelief, perhaps. Maybe a character is carrying an Idiot Ball, or has suddenly become Too Dumb To Live. Maybe the series pulled out Green Rocks once too often, used a little too much Scotch Tape, or unleashed a Ret Con that made everyone's eyes roll out of their head. However it happened, the audience has been dealt a Wall Banger.

Wall Bangers certainly wreck episodes and turn away a few fans, but repeated instances can indicate a show is about to, or has already, Jumped the Shark.

The origin of the term is attributed to Samuel Goldwyn, who described a script as having made a "Hell of a bang, when I threw it against the wall." (Alternatively, from banging your head against the wall at the sheer dumbness of it all.)

In Video Games, Wall Bangers are often also Game Breakers, and are sometimes known as "Controller Smashers" or "Screen Smashers", from the impulses a gamer on the receiving end of a Wall Banger gets. They be particularly frustrating here, because video games are all about giving the player control, which makes it significantly worse when the player is railroaded into doing something completely stupid.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Aquaria's ending is a wall banger.

Please don't misunderstand, I am not calling the developers stupid here or question their ability, but I have simply come to this conclusion. Yes, I am criticising the game, however I am trying to be objective and constructive here.

In retrospect, the main reason I have arrived to this conclusion is simple: there was simply no warning. The beginning of the game was vague, yes. However, it did not hint to this outcome specifically.

I feel that if Naija talked or mentioned her mother more after unlocking all three memories and gave hints to Mia's twisted personality, or even hinted how was Mia as a diety, then I would have seen this coming.

Or perhaps the Dark Shadowy figure should have given more indication of its intents.

There was no build up, no hints, no ominous or vague warnings. These would have made the ending more tragic, rather then shocking.

However, there was none. And for that reason, when Mia simply took away Naija's concious like that, it didn't just threw us off guard but hit us below the belt.

It wasn't just tragic, but shocking in a rather uncomfortable way.

So, what do you lot say? What do the developers have to say to this?

[Alec]

Not really sure why you're so mad, but enjoy the rage if that's what you're into. If you want to personally blame me for feeling bad, go ahead. I probably wont' be around much longer anyways.

I personally feel that its pretty obvious that Mia lead you through the game by setting up situations for you to fall into. The first game fits into a larger story line that I'd like to develop, but I'm sure with all the hate directed towards me and/or the game that's pretty unlikely to happen.

Oh well.

[Zixinus]

Hate?   Sir, you wound me.

 Just because I am criticising one bad aspect one the game, doesn't mean I hate it. I am not mad at all. I merely thought about this, and this is the conclusion I arrived at.

I love Aquaria. I've brought it, not downloaded it off a bittorent site for that very reason. I love the graphics, I love the gameplay, I love the stlye. It's just the ending that I have a little mixed feelings about.

If I wanted to rant about how bad the game is, I wouldn't be stupid enough to do so where the developer is the admin and could easily fry my ***. And I would have made it much more obvious.

I have a couple of games I would gladly throw my bladder at (Another World comes to mind), but Aquaria isn't one of them.

I personally feel that its pretty obvious that Mia lead you through the game by setting up situations for you to fall into.

Really? Perhaps I played in a bad way or missed something, but I only learned her name at the end. Have I missed something?

[Alec]

Dude, you don't have to pretend. Just let it all out.

[Zixinus]

Okay, I am not fucking pretending. I am not a moron that buys a game and then bitches about how bad it is. I am careful with my choice, and I NOT regretted Aquaria. Yes, I didn't like the part of the ending with Mia but otherwise I loved the game.

Furthermore, I am not a hypocrite that first tells you about how he loves the game and then ditches and bitches about how bad it is. If I don't like the game, I am going to go and fucking say it. But the thing is, I don't want to say it because I then wouldn't be honest with myself.

I have checked again and again in my post what makes you think that I am trying to flame you. I have found nothing, except perhaps the misleading thread title. My only conclusion is that you are being silly here or take criticism badly. Or perhaps I've just posted when you are having a bad day.

So, if this looks like an attack to you, then sorry, that was not my intention. I merely pointed a criticism I have. If you can't take that, then again, sorry.

[Alec]

Okay, I am not fucking pretending.

Oh, I love to take it.

Everyday, someone complains about the "one thing" they don't like about the game. Everyone has their own pet peeve.

When added up, pretty much everything in the game has been complained about. To improve the game for everyone's enjoyment, every aspect would have to be changed. I've been trying to work on that, but its pretty depressing when you can't trust your own instincts and you have nobody to bounce your ideas off of.

That's one of the reasons the Mac version is taking a long time to finish. Its pretty hard to try to make something perfect on your own.

But I keep trying, and I will keep trying, because I do believe in trying to improve things.

[Alphasoldier]

I probably wont' be around much longer anyways.

Explain?

[TheBear]

Have faith Alec! I am by no means an expert in the field but I'm a game design student and would love to chat with you about anything. If I'm not working on Aquaria maps I'm playing indie games or doing art projects so I have free time to chat and work =)

[Alec]

So a list of complaints and things to change, if anyone's curious. I'm probably forgetting a lot of things, but here's what's on the top of my head:

1. "I hate Li"
Really hard to get motivated to work on changing this one because I don't agree with it, but I've heard it a lot... so I'm trying to think of ways to make Li more likable for the people that hate him.

One idea I had was to find wrecks of human tech lying around, and have Li upgrade his weapon when you find them. There could be maybe 3 places, and at the end he could have a more powerful shot. But that means asking Derek for more graphics, and implementing a bunch of things.

We also planned to have areas where Li would go off and investigate things, based on his own curiosity. This seems subtle, hard to implement and I'm dubious if it would make an impact now.

Li has a number of emotional reactions expressed through facial changes. However, people don't notice because his head is really small. I was considering adding sounds to him at one point - so he could react to stuff going on. This would probably only anger the people who already don't like Li, though. (since he'd be having more of a presence)

Li taking damage is another option - he could take a few hits, and then get stunned. Problems: he might block enough shots to dramatically shift the balance of the game, and if he got knocked out, it would probably annoy the people that already find him annoying.

2. "Menu screens suck"
Trying to make it more obvious which menu screen you're on. (some people said they didn't play the game more than 5 minutes, because they opened the menu screen and then got extremely upset and quit... don't really understand that, but there it is) It would be nice to figure out a way to switch between screens more obviously. Some people don't notice the small icons right away. Not sure how that would fit in visually yet... trying to figure it out on my own.

3. "I hate dragging things"
People want to click once to auto-cook any item. I feel like this would be difficult to implement (would you really want to make a soup with swordfish steak, if that was the only meat left?) and would make cooking way to fast/easy. But somebody will inevitably complain about it, so I'm trying to think of something.

4. "Map System sucks"
Made it so you can click on previous areas to see your progress in them. Made it so you can see the names of the areas by hovering over them, as well as the name of the area you're in.

5. "The story is too obvious!"
Someone thought the game's story was purely about "gods being bad". They didn't think there was enough mystery. I feel like there's enough mystery in each culture to write a novel about each, but then again I'm me. Hard to relate to this complaint, and not sure if there's much to be done about it.

6. "The story is too vague!"
Some people think the story should explain everything when you reach the end. I feel like the ending provides enough clues to realize what is going on without actually laying it out in specifics. There is also the bigger story arc that would be developed in other games, if they were ever made. The main (non-secret) ending probably won't change much... for some reason I like it.

7. "Mia plotline is stupid"
Also disagree, not sure what to do to improve it. We originally had plans to insert scenes when Mia meets up with Naija after each area. She still meets up with Naija, but nothing is said and no events occur, which were originally planned. I guess I could try adding those in now, but I have a feeling it would piss off the "too much story" people. Hmm.

8. "I'm lost, I don't know where to go"
Also added map beacon hints. There are things in the world now that you can find that will add a beacon on the world map where the  boss location for Energy Temple, Forest, Mithalas and Li are. Hopefully the people who like exploring won't be too annoyed by this. crosses fingers

9. "I'm not going to buy the game unless it has widescreen support"
Oh man, we've both spent so much time implementing this. I really hope people enjoy it.

10. "I'm not going to buy this game unless its for the Mac"
Still working on it. Part of the length of time is that I'm trying to address the concerns before releasing the Mac version.

11. "I'm not going to buy this game unless its for Linux"
A possibility. Hard to get motivated to work on.

12. "Food Sort"
A button that would sort your food in various ways. I don't really understand how its going to work out. I feel like it would ruin some of the mystery of the food system. (by making it really obvious which items are healing and which have other strange effects) I've implemented a version of it, but I still don't really get it game play wise.

13. "This game is teh gay" - GameTrailers.com
err... can't do much about that at this point

14. "Music is generic / throwaway / by the book" - IGN
Alright... guess I could rewrite all the music? ... Naw.

[RobertWalker]

@Zixinus: I can see that you were trying to be constructive, but you probably should cut Alec a little slack, seeing as making a significant change to the plot now would be nigh impossible. (He'd have to change too much of the game.) And changing it after it's already out would probably tick off more people than it would please. So Alec is pretty much in a position where changing the plot is just plain not feasible, yet you're probably the twentieth person or so on the forum to make a thread complaining about it. Constructive perhaps, but frustrating for Alec when he can't really do anything about it at this point.

Judging the quality of the plot is rather subjective, anyway. Case in point: My brother thinks that Battlefield Earth is a great movie.

Too bad you can't make everybody happy, Alec.

Seriously, though, I don't get the gripe about the ending being too vague. It seems to me that it perfectly ties up enough strings to feel like an ending, yet still leaves enough untied to have room for a sequel. And even if there isn't a sequel, who says that you have to neatly tie up every freaking string? Storyline obsessive-compulsiveness baffles me. Anyway, I don't feel that the plot really needs to be changed in any way, other than being extended in a sequel.

Regarding changes to Li: I like the idea of him being able to upgrade his weapon. That's pretty keen.

I don't get the auto-cook request. Although it would be nice to have some indication of what each recipe does and whether you even have the needed ingredients to cook it.

I don't get the music complaint either. IGN can go hang!

Anyway, ultimately, do what you want with the game, Alec. If people don't like the game, they don't have to buy it.

[Alec]

I understand the original complaint to a point. The idea is that the Mia twist came out of nowhere, and that upset him.

I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or a good thing, though. Its supposed to be a somewhat upsetting moment, and you're not supposed to see it coming, although there is enough room to guess.

Again, we had planned to put in scenes that would involve 13/Mia testing you, revealing more about her and her character. I think it was going to go something like:

(in the order of times that you meet her)

1. beginning of the game, she previews energy form, teases you on with visions, gets the game started

2. (after beating mithalas/forest)
she shows up, touches naija, naija says "wait..." mia fades away

3. (after beating mithas/forest [whichever order])
she shows up, touches naija, warps naija to a different area (probably her secret cave)
naija goes through another vision fight sequence
naija would have some dialog reacting to it, wondering about it.

Also recorded a line from the Creator about "Mia". (like the audio that plays over the statues of the creator in some levels when you pass them) It didn't end up in the released version of the game for some reason.

There were a few other ideas I was messing around with as well, but none are developed to the point where they make any sense yet.


The 3 memories are the locations where Naija lived with her mother. Her mother was on the run from the Creator, who was constantly pursuing her with his minions (likely the twisted Naija clones found in the body). First she lived in the Abyss, when Naija was a baby. Then in Mithalas when Naija was a child. Then eventually in the Sun Temple, when she was older. (where she bumped into Li for the first time)

Mia is the mother of the 13th race, of which the only known child is Naija. Naija has the power unique to all the races (and her mother) to be able to absorb the energy of other gods and to change her form.

Mia was created being told that she was perfect, and in that way she was spoiled. However, being created as someone that the creator would love, she had the strong element of nature/birth/being uncontrollable.

Mia used the power of the Mithalan Priests to hide herself, manipulating Naija into becoming a powerful creature, eventually freeing both of them from the Creator and restoring Aquaria to the rule of nature. She's essentially raising Naija to be powerful and defend herself against men (to be successful), and she's racist against a group of people (humans). This was mainly inspired by a certain mother that I know, who is trying to control her daughter's life to the point of stalking her. Who is also a racist.

[Alec]

The themes that I find interesting in the game are as follows:

Loneliness
Man vs. Woman
Creation vs. Nature
Right Hemisphere of the Brain vs. the Left Hemisphere
Faith (powerful, often misplaced)
Love (powerful, often misplaced)

where Man and Creation are linked
and Women and Nature are linked (natural birth being part of nature)

I've noticed this theme pop in a number of places, mostly unplanned. (noticing after replaying the game a number of times)

[Glamador]

HOW THE HELL DID THIS TOPIC GET SO BIG IN ONE DAY!?  And I know I've said this before, but I disagree with almost every storyling complaint about this game.  The only crime commited by the story, is making us wait for another game.  And that is a compliment in every sense of the word.  As for the map issues, sure there are some valid complaints, widescreen has never been that important...to ANY game.  It's an extra feature at most.  Cooking is fine the way it is, it could use a sort feature.  Overall, the only complaints I have with the game are of efficiency and ease of use.  And frankly, they arn't big in the first place.

I've said this before.  Stand by your work!  It's good work!  The art is great, the music is even better, and the story is intriguing enough that I want to discuss it on these here forums.  One game will NEVER please everyone.  But hopefully the game has garnered enough sales and enough posts on these forums to convince you that despite some menu/map issues, the game is pretty damn good.

[TheBear]

There are so few games with compelling stories and Aquaria easily sits on the pedestal with Mass Effect (even with it all of its problems...freaking vehicle sections), Psychonauts, etc.  As far as your music Alec I'm still constantly blown away. Very inspiring. I listen to different music when I'm mapping and try to somehow capture the music on canvas...with someone elses artwork but still.

Here are some of my ideas on cooking with a quick and terrible image.



I personally don't like inventory systems with over about 10 items unless I'm playing an MMOG...occasionally an RPG if done well. However, I don't think allowing "one click recipes" is the way to go.

Changing Pages
Tackle this from a web design perspective. There should be a clear indicator of what page you are currently on. The extreme would be changing the color/texture of each page to make it really obvious. The more subtle suggestion is to put something that appears behind the  icon of the currently selected page.  Could be a simple glow or maybe a energylamp from EnergyTemple that lights up behind it. Maybe go illustrator style and add some aquarian text with the icons and conform them to the arc below (a rectangle behind shows the current page). Perhaps add a quick fade in/out to the 2 swirling tiles to show that the page has changed.

Recipe
Move the recipe menu to the bottom (big blue box in my pic) so the player can look at the recipes while they cook. Having the wide menu would allow more recipes to seen as well. I really think a rollover/hover to show what the recipe actually makes is needed. My idea to keep that inquisitiveness about what your making is to prevent seeing what the food bonus is until after you've made "one" of that item. This promotes trying out new recipes to see what mega foods you can create.

The different tiers of food items could be stored on different pages. Make it a hierarchal structure where things initially collected are stored on one, once something is cooked its on 2, when something on 2 is combined with something else it moves to 3. There might be too many items to do this and it might not be a great idea but just tossing it up in the air.

Quick Access
Make a quick access panel in the free arc space. There would be 5-10 (or whatever) empty slots where food items could be dragged to allow for quick health boosts without having to look through your inventory.

I'll think about it some more while I'm mapping.

[Derek]

Hey, Zixinus-

First off, we appreciate you buying the game and taking the time to think about it.

Regarding the ending, if we had given more clues, or added more exposition about her childhood and mother, it'd probably make the secret ending more palatable.  But keep in mind that it's supposed to be a secret!  So the plan was to make it, as you described, shocking (and perhaps even uncomfortable)... not so much tragic, I think.

And the three secrets do mention "Naija's Childhood" so it's not completely out of left field, right?

Overall, it's really difficult to balance how much information you give the player.  The more you give, the easier it is to grasp, but it also makes it less satisfying when you do.