Bit Blot Forum
Aquaria => Gameplay => Topic started by: dhakkel on December 11, 2007, 03:47:12 am
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So, I just beat it with all the memories, and man that was awesome. Unfortunately my machine stuttered all over the place from the.. 2nd form of the final boss onwards, so yeah that was on (or 5) infuriatingly long and slow fights for me! But they were very cool. All the plot stuff at the end was amazing, I didn't expect the God to be the little boy who "died" at the beginning. I only have one question: Who was the spirit that saved the boy?
And the Mia stuff (I assume this is the extra stuff that gets added when you get all memories? I didn't beat it without all memories so I'm not sure), whoah. I was so exhausted by the time I got to her I was saying to myself "please don't fight her please don't fight her", and yeah I'm glad she didn't. Kind of a cheesy "the end......???????" ending really, but I don't see what else you could have done.
That human with clothes on and the Aquarian chick with black hair, are they both Naija's kids? I assumed the guy was but we didn't see that she had anymore so I'm not sure about the girl.
Also, does getting all treasures affect the ending? I have like 6 still to find, I'll probably do it but I'd still like to know if the ending changes in case I lose interest before I find them :(.
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When I saw it I thought the guy flying away was Li. There was definitely only one baby in the cutscene.
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It's definitely possible, although the baby looked more human than Aquarian for the brief time I saw it (I think? I didn't get a good look at it.)
If it is Li then 1) He looks weird with clothes, and 2) Good job leaving your only child alone! What a great dad :D!
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OH MY GOD SPOILERS, LIKE CRAZY BAD
I was actually thinking it might be Naija and Li's child. Like it's set quite far in the future, and they've decided to go and search for their mother (who to them would have just disappeared into thin air). They have green skin like Naija, but hair and features akin to Li, so... It makes sense that if it has both of their features it could very well be their now grown child.
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The one flying away is definitely Naija and Li's son. If you finish the game without all the memories, after the credits, Naija tells you to go back and try again, as you were too focused on just the facts and not the memories of her childhood..."my son".
With all the memories, that is replaced by the Mia sequence, with the boy touching the memory crystal. As for the long black haired one on the bed, could be another child, but he looks different, and older. Don't think it could be Li, as he doesn't look human at all, and I don't think it is the first son, as he doesn't look half human/half whatever-Naija-is.
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Yes, Mia's reference to "changing diapers and burping babies" (I think that's what it was) implies that Li and Naija had or planned to have had several children. However many they managed before the confrontation, however, is open to guessing. There could be very many, even, and perhaps in the next part we'll play all of them for a time. :P Very open-ended, and annoying like that, haha. :-X
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Yeah, maybe it's subtle, but I think you're actually supposed to be experiencing Naija's life (ie playing the whole game)through your child's interaction with the blue crystal in the "secret" ending, hence all the voice over stuff talking about things in past tence.
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All valid points. It makes sense that he would "fly" off, now that I think about it. Mia never mentioned conquering the ocean world, she only wanted to conquer the "lands above the water." The second person we see though, I thought it was a chick? The one in the water. Maybe that's an "evil Naija" *gasp? That'd suck to have to kill your controlled mother. :D
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I just beat the game and got the secret ending and I am so amazed. Everything from the last boss fight onward was especially epic times 10. I loved how Mia turned out to be a bad guy and was a little creeped out when she started telling Naija about her ambitions and worldview while holding Naija. I liked how we got a glimpse of a couple new characters for the promised sequel (I'm assuming the guy on the boat isn't Li). And "The End" rune writing was a nice touch.
(on a complete tangent, I regard Aquaria's ending as highly as some of my other favorites such as those of Shadow of the Colossus and Zelda: Link's Awakening)
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Hey, I'll post this here, too, seeing as all you guys have beaten it:
I made a new save to map out where treasures are and stuff, and guess what: I saved over my 16 hour save.
Could someone possible upload their save? I just need one with all the forms, I don't mind remapping everything but I just cannot force myself to do it without fish/beast form :(!
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Hey, just out of curiosity, has anyone seen both endings? I.e. the ending with all the memories and the ending without them?
Does the ending without just stop before the final bit with Mia, or is it different entirely?
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Just beat the game...
All I can say is, well worth the 30. This is easily one of the best games I've played in a long time, and I REALLY REALLY hope it gets the recognition it deserves... At least enough to keep plans for a sequel from being dropped. >.> *Knocks on wood*
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Yeah, maybe it's subtle, but I think you're actually supposed to be experiencing Naija's life (ie playing the whole game)through your child's interaction with the blue crystal in the "secret" ending, hence all the voice over stuff talking about things in past tence.
Hence the fact that he bee-lines to the boat and takes off: to save Naija (maybe).
You know, we don't know anything about Li. All we know is that he happened to be in the Veil. How did he get there? Who is he? I wonder if we'll find out more in the sequel.
wwarnick
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Yeah, maybe it's subtle, but I think you're actually supposed to be experiencing Naija's life (ie playing the whole game)through your child's interaction with the blue crystal in the "secret" ending, hence all the voice over stuff talking about things in past tence.
Hence the fact that he bee-lines to the boat and takes off: to save Naija (maybe).
You know, we don't know anything about Li. All we know is that he happened to be in the Veil. How did he get there? Who is he? I wonder if we'll find out more in the sequel.
wwarnick
Well, we DO know about Li that he and Naija met before. Maybe just once, maybe even several times.
And we also know that Li, similar to Naija, was looking for answers when he was diving in the Veil (probably looking for the Sunken City). However, with just a Scuba Diving suit you won't get that far down :p
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We do? How do we know that? I don't remember her saying she's met him before. She definitely hasn't been to the Veil before (I didn't know what was ahead, perhaps a boiling inferno end of the world etc speech she gives when she goes to the veil for the first time).
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There's a cutscene dude!
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A cutscene where she says she's met Li before? Wow. I must have blanked that from my memory I guess?
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A cutscene where she says she's met Li before? Wow. I must have blanked that from my memory I guess?
I think it is the hidden memory you get at the top of the sun temple. We see a young Li in a boat in the Veil and a young Naija approaching him. He looks at her baffled, she giggles and vanishes again.
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Oh yeah, that's true. So she has been to the Veil before, she just forgot about it. That's kinda lame :/.
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Oh yeah, that's true. So she has been to the Veil before, she just forgot about it. That's kinda lame :/.
Only lame if you forgot the reason why. ;)
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Oh yeah, that's true. So she has been to the Veil before, she just forgot about it. That's kinda lame :/.
Only lame if you forgot the reason why. ;)
Is that mentioned in the intro, throughout the game, or in the ending? I know she lost her memory, but I think it kinda slipped my radar why.
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Explained in the secret ending very clearly.
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Explained in the secret ending very clearly.
Ah, OK, I'm still gnawing on the final boss :p
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No, I know why. I don't really like memory-loss stories, that's all.
I do like fighting God stories, though, and so far this is the only game where it is actually feasible to fight God and win, so kudos on that.
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No, I know why. I don't really like memory-loss stories, that's all.
I do like fighting God stories, though, and so far this is the only game where it is actually feasible to fight God and win, so kudos on that.
Heh, the instant I entered The Body I had to think of the Elder God from the Legacy of Kain.
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Haha, same, actually. But he wasn't really a true God/Creator, was he? He's just a big mean squid.
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Haha, same, actually. But he wasn't really a true God/Creator, was he? He's just a big mean squid.
Well, the Elder God WAS independent from time. And apparently had some influence over certain people (although mostly through talking).
And the entire Vampire race committed suicide when he didn't talk with them anymore. Isn't that what makes a god? ;)
Oh, if you like this stuff, you could also try the old DOS adventure I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, based on the short story of the same name. I too features a bunch of humans up against an allpowerful entitiy (namely a supercomputer named AM).
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I'm pleased there's plans for a sequel, although I generally don't like "To be continued" style endings the fact that it's an extra reward makes it alright, especially after such a great game. As long as it doesn't become another game with a hinted at sequel that never materialises then I'm happy (I don't want to go through another Beyond Good and Evil or Outcast lack of follow up!).
I kind of feel sorry for the poor little creator kid.
As for games with god like creatures, SHODAN springs to mind. System Shock 2 had her manipulating you to try and sort out her own unruly creations. Guess Aquaria is different in that you've been manipulated to kill a creator.
Also did anyone else tend to feel guilty throughout the game when they killed things. Even with out the game saying that Naija feels that way I still would have felt that way myself. While I have no qualms killing anything that's killing me I always felt bad killing shoals of fish to get fish oil! And I just couldn't bring myself to blast at turtles, they're so cute!
Anyway I'm planning on having a scour for the last 7 or so treasures that I missed.
A very enjoyable game, I loved being able to discover things by myself without being led by the hand, I loved the challenge of some of the puzzles and the boss fights were superbly executed (particularly the final boss and the cathedral boss). Excellent soundtrack, voice acting and story as well. One of the best games this year.
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After completing the game, I've only got a few complaints about it.
One thing that really bothered me was Li. The guy had as much depth as the dumbo squid pet. >.> I mean, he played the second banana role to the maximum extent of the phrase. Maybe it was because he had no voice, but he really felt tacked on. In all honesty, in retrospect, I wouldn't have minded of Naija had drowned the bastard in the cave with his Mr. T wannabe 'do. ;P
Another thing that roasts my muffins about this game is that aquatic text stuff scattered everywhere, I figured at some point you would be able to click them to have Naija read them, or even just hover it with yer mouse to have it change like on the title screen. But nope, here there's all this text everywhere that looks like it'd be important or interesting and it's completely lost to those who don't have a PhD in cryptography. =(
Finally, Naija has a distinct need to literally FLY out of suspended bubbles at high velocity no matter how slowly you move to their edge. Granted this only came into play at the Lobster boss... But it was still significant enough to be annoying. (Not that the bubble hopping acrossed the frozen veil wasn't annoying at times...)
That gets rid of the major stuff. Now onto the minor gripes.
I really think the dumbo octopus pet should've followed your cursor rather than Naija... Having the thing trail behind you most of the time basically wastes it. (Though I DID find a use for it on the very last boss... ;P Simply because it wouldn't steal the kills.)
The nature form was rather underused throughout the game. Granted it was VERY useful for scaling walls out of the water, it seemed its only true use was the Lobster boss and the blue plants. Every other form had quite a bit of use associated with it, but the nature form was basically switch to it and then switch back right away... It kinda bothered me... Though not too bad considering how often I used it as the beast form was the very last form I got. (Besides the obvious dual-form.)
Though even with those gripes, Aquaria currently takes the spot of the best game I've played all year.
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I don't know I found nature form rather useful for blocking off enemies and so on. To be honest the form that I found mos pointless was spirit form. It's only use was to get past steam. While I guess it was required that there was another blocking method that needed a boss fight to get so that the game's structure would work out nicely it just would have been nice if it had had some other kind of use. Maybe if it had allowed you to see extra bits of narrative through the actions of spirits in certain areas while in the form (a bit like Scrying in Clive Barker's Undying) or something along those lines it would have felt a tad less tacked on.
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I don't know I found nature form rather useful for blocking off enemies and so on. To be honest the form that I found mos pointless was spirit form. It's only use was to get past steam. While I guess it was required that there was another blocking method that needed a boss fight to get so that the game's structure would work out nicely it just would have been nice if it had had some other kind of use. Maybe if it had allowed you to see extra bits of narrative through the actions of spirits in certain areas while in the form (a bit like Scrying in Clive Barker's Undying) or something along those lines it would have felt a tad less tacked on.
Yeah, I'm with you on that one. Also, it would've been awesome if you could "materialize" inside certain creatures to temporarily possess them and fight as them or act out story plot points with them.
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Spirit Form has another function that I don't think anyone has discovered yet. ::)
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I do like fighting God stories, though, and so far this is the only game where it is actually feasible to fight God and win, so kudos on that.
I have to point it out (again). There is Eternal Daughter, a freeware game from Derek Yu (too) which is harder and very good too. Aand you can fight Gods again. Lucky you. ;)
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Spirit Form has another function that I don't think anyone has discovered yet. ::)
Anything else than passing steam or take a "dejavu-look"?
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I was curious if you could grab items while in Spirit form. Tried it but it doesn't work. However, I did discover that you still take damage from projectiles while in that form which sucks !
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Spirit Form has another function that I don't think anyone has discovered yet. ::)
If its so secret that noone used it and still completed the game maybe its not so important
We aren't talking about importance. We are talking about the wish to have all treasures, all 13 sites of recipes, all secret rooms found, etc... You can beat the game and miss out half of the interesting stuff (like pets or recipes)
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I noticed that if you use it in the Seahorse race you see seahorses instead of balls of light racing around the track. So my guess is that there are places you can use it to see spirits - probably the rooms where you find the memories or some of the houses in Mithalis. Or maybe not :)
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I noticed that if you use it in the Seahorse race you see seahorses instead of balls of light racing around the track. So my guess is that there are places you can use it to see spirits - probably the rooms where you find the memories or some of the houses in Mithalis. Or maybe not :)
That's another thing... and that's really the only area where its used so far. I'd like to add more ghosts and things to the game if we get time.
But yeah, there's another gameplay function to spirit form, and a couple bosses that are made super easy by it. ^-^
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Aleeeec, Not fair, can you take over bodies or something?
Also to note that spirit form is pretty much the last form you get so there aren't many bosses left.
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It doesn't have to be the last form that you get.
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I've got spirit form very early in the game, and found no particular use against bosses, maybe i should start a new game !
But i've found an annoying bug with it : It may freeze the game when trying to ride an Ancient Turtle in Spirit Form. 1h playtime lost :(
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I just fixed that one 2 minutes ago, but yeah... that sucks. :'( My apologies.
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Now you've gone and tempted me to start a new game, get spirit form early and see if I can figure out what else it can do.
Damn it I have exams to revise for!
Although it's good to hear it has more use, I guess it's just another of the less obvious things in the game that you have to have a think about to discover (or just do it by accident!).
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Wanna give us a hint which bosses are easier and which not? :)
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hey guys, I have a bug or something.
I did find all 3 memories and visited all 3 of them again just in case i forgot one and i'm pretty sure i have all of them. the problem is that I didn't get the "secret" ending even if I have them all. Naija is saying that I have to go back and try again, as I were too focused on just the facts and not the memories of her childhood
but I do have all of them... or am I missing something else?
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You should get a message telling you that you've unlocked a new ending - if you have, then I guess it's a bug :(
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Sounds like a bug, Inhert. All you need are the memories to get the good ending.
As for spirit form, you need beast and nature form to get it, right? So that really only leaves the optional bosses, sun temple and abyss bosses left to mess around with it? Hmm.
Well I guess it would help if you had trouble during the bosses and tried crazy stuff, haha. Oh well.
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Hmm if you for sure have all of them, you can try sending me your save file and I can verify that.
You're sure you know what the 3 areas are and you've been to all of them though?
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well there a big f-cking blue crystal at the last boss so i tried the obvious but it didnt work :/
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ok nevermind, my bad.
The thing is, I saved at the crystal before getting the last memory and not after, so when I loaded my game last time I just got out of the area thinking that I had the memory XD
well let's go defeat that awesome last boss again ^^
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well let's go defeat that awesome last boss again ^^
You gotta be kidding me :p
Is there some kind of secret trick or something? The 2nd form is so damn hard already that I wonder how the hell I am supposed to manage 4 other forms.
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He was hard the first dozen times while I was figuring out how to beat him. He wasn't so hard once I figured out what to do. Also, I remapped attack to spacebar, so I can just spam that key while dodging with the mouse, which helps.
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Actually if you use the best costume ever nothing is hard anymore.
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Actually if you use the best costume ever nothing is hard anymore.
Chances are that I already have it, but have no idea what makes it so awesome :p
Also, from what I know, costumes only have effect in normal form, and I'd have a hard time killing anything in that form.
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When Naija gets this costume she tells you what its used for. Lets just say its better than a veggiecake :D
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When Naija gets this costume she tells you what its used for. Lets just say its better than a veggiecake :D
Jelly costume? It's not THAT useful :/
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It is pretty really damn useful, really. Not so much in the difficult boss fights, but I used it on the ultra-final boss a lot before I figured out his pattern.
Like, you can't really use it on the 2nd form of the final boss because you NEED to be attacking him all the time or you'll just die too fast, but for the 3rd, 4th and 5th forms it is pretty useful.
Same for just like SWIMMING AROUND finding treasures, it's nice not to have to worry about getting hit at all.
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Right clicking whilst in Spirit form
allows you to absorb projectiles destroying them in the process
for every 5 projectiles absorbed, HP is healed incrementally
Projectiles can still damage you if you walk into it in spirit form
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old msg:
you can use spirit form for destroying projectiles ?
and it absorbs the energy and you end up healing yourself
every 5 projectiles = hp healed incrementally
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Personally I find it damn useful being invincible :/
Jelly costume + Shieldspell = Invincible
No boss shoot all the time, when he shoot, be invincible... then bam bam bam.
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If you're doing it right, you need take no damage at all on the third and fourth forms. the third form can occasionally damage you, but only if you get too close. the fourth form is trivial to take 0 hits from if you do the thing.
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The ending was pretty damn awesome, I went back and beat it again yesterday just so I could see it again. I felt so bad for that kid... loneliness and loss are big themes throughout the game; that really gets me. Losing everyone I love is pretty much my number one fear, so that hit home. Poor kid :( That first whispered "On that day..." always makes me shed a tear. "I could never remember the chorus, only the verse" and how it found its way into everything he made was a clever touch.
I wonder how he became so twisted like that... The Body is certainly not a welcoming place...
I'm dying to find out what happens next, what with the highly interesting endgame events... but of course the next one (are there definite plans for it?) hasn't even been started yet. I would looooove to know anything Alec or Derek could tell us about that... if anything...
Absolutely beautiful game in every way, the voicework is perfect, wonderful music... anxiously awaiting the release of the soundtrack, I really wanna listen to the Kelp Forest music... Lots of Ecco nostalgia too...
How in hell was this made by just two guys?! In just two years?! You guys have superpowers or something. It's kinda my dream to make an adventure indie game like this myself, but I have absolutely zero programming or music skills... I'm really jealous. :D Oh well, we'll see what the future holds...
How much are you guys making off this? You really deserve it... usually it would take an entire studio to make a game of this quality, and for just two guys to do it... crazy awesome. :)
Definitely see if you can have this put on the Wii as WiiWare or something. That would be excellent, and I bet the wiimote would fit itself very well to the controls. More people need to play this game.
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you can use spirit form for destroying projectiles ?
and it absorbs the energy and you end up healing yourself
every 5 projectiles = hp healed incrementally
is it a question or is it an answer.?
I tried it and the spiritform will NOT heal if you hit particles... however you will take damage, but only once/particle.
So where do you get those numbers (5=heal)?
heh, im confused.
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Right Clicking in Spirit form
allows you to absorb enemy projectiles, projectiles disappear in the process (effectively eradicating a source of damage)
Right Click works in a small radius. Area of Effect is around the "spirit" (blue orb you control)
for every 5 projectiles absorbed
HP is healed incrementally
5 projectiles do not have to be onscreen at a time in order to heal - absorbed projectiles are still counted toward the next time you absorb (therefore you can enter and exit spirit form several times in order to 'gather' enough projectiles to heal)
moving into projectiles will damage you, so don't get too close
btw you can collect blue healing particles in spirit form by moving over them
some more information:
if attempts are made to absorb an enemy projectile in which the enemy has been destroyed, projectile will not be absorbed
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Well, I loved the ending and thought it was great, but at the same time I'm confused as hell about certain things.
Firstly, what "saved" the kid? There must have been a reason that he became powerful. I'm also a bit confused on what exactly he created and what was already there. Obviously he made some major mistakes in any case, but I'm still a little unclear. Like... were the Mithalan people that went crazy and started feeding their kin to their god somehow disturbed by the child? Was that his fault, or is that just something they did? The way several things were phrased in the ending I'm not not quite clear on. What exactly did the Creator create?
Secondly, was Li from the flying city? I wasn't sure if he was just some guy from maybe some other place who happened to be interested in the area, or if he was a survivor of the disaster living off of whatever he could scavenge that had fallen and stayed afloat long enough for him to grab. The latter doesn't seem likely since you get the impression the kid was the only "survivor", and surely the disaster must have taken place at least some time ago for the events of the story to seem believable, probably long enough that whatever rations Li could gather would be gone. Also, I personally really liked his addition. He didn't feel tacked on to me at all, and I enjoyed the emotional relationship there.
Definitely confused about the sleeping girl at the end there, had it not been for that I think the last bit of the ending would have made more sense to me and I would have assumed it was Naija's son going off to find her after reviewing the memory crystal one last time. That's still sort of what my gut says, but the girl throws me nonetheless.
Anyway, my confusions aside, that was a mind-blowingly great game. Seriously. I'm going to put the finishing touches on the 5 page review I've been taking notes on and writing as I played, and it should be up somewhere in readable form shortly.
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my vote is the girl is their daughter, and the boy is their son, and the next game will involve their two quests, one underwater and one in the sky, which will seem separate at first but become intertwined.
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Li was in the scripts from the very beginning, and his reasons for being where he is can be speculated from scenes in the game / thinking about the storyline.
Li isn't a survivor of the flying city from the intro, however. That city was destroyed and the only survivor was the boy: Eric.
Li and Naija also met before, when they were young, probably more than once. I don't think they ever interacted more than simply seeing each other and being intrigued. But I'd like to think that those moments sparked something in their imaginations that wasn't erased. When Naija was young, she wasn't living alone and probably wasn't allowed to talk to strangers...
In terms of the girl in the cutscene, her character is totally unexplained in this game, but we have a detailed backstory for her and it'd be interesting to get a chance to explore that in a separate game - but I don't know if we'll ever get the chance to do that.
Also I'll say that the "thing" that brought the boy back to life would be explored much more fully in a sequel, if we ever made one. Its part of a bigger story, and it would be cool to have the second game be about that and its history as well.
But yeah, who knows if that'll ever happen!
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I think Li war searching the Veil for 2 reasons:
1. He wanted to find the Sunken City cause he heard about it in a legend or something else. It might be on the same level as we search for the sunken city of atlantis. Nobody knows where it is but maybe it is somewhere. And wasn't there some phrase in the Sunken City like: "Li was interested in the city" and he actually has the key to that city.
2. He wanted to search for this girl he has seen in the water when he was a kid. thats one of the hidden memories.
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2 seems unlikely because he runs away from her when he finds her.
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2 seems unlikely because he runs away from her when he finds her.
Maybe he's running away from his own desires. ;)
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maybe she assumed he was running away, but in actuality, he was leading her to somewhere he was more comfortable
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2 seems unlikely because he runs away from her when he finds her.
Maybe he's running away from his own desires. ;)
Now all we need to know is whether or not you're trying to mislead us ;)
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maybe she assumed he was running away, but in actuality, he was leading her to somewhere he was more comfortable
I dig this one. :)
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Ok just beated the game, got the good ending with all the memories and was wondering. Do you get another ending/extra cutscene if you collect all the treasures?
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Thanks for contributing to the thread, Alec. It's nice to have a couple of the gaps filled in. I feel like everything makes more sense now, barring the exact details of what the Creator built for himself. I really did like the ending, in any case. And the song Jenna sang is truly heart-wrenching. I managed okay in the game, but when I listened to it at work the other day it was all I could do not to cry like a damned baby.
The thing I find myself wondering most heavily now is who actually raised Naija. If Mia was created and not born, did she slip into Mithalan society with Naija and raise her, or was Naija just given to some people there to be raised? The figure in the memory in the kitchen may answer that question, and the latter option seems unlikely anyway. Next play through I'll have to check, though.
Also, it should be noted that my wife totally hates you after that ending. If I tell her there's any chance at all of there not being a sequel, you may have an angry woman throwing rocks at your houses. She hates cliffhangers, heh, especially if she's worried about the chances of a sequel getting made (the first thing out of her mouth was something along the lines of "This better not be another Beyond Good & Evil).
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You can also use spirit form to "cheat" during the race in the seahorse cave. Remember: in spirit form, time stops.
Spirit form also makes a nice scout; again, time stops, and you can still use the middle mouse button to look around, allowing you to spot potentially painful surprises further afield than usual.
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You can also use spirit form to "cheat" during the race in the seahorse cave. Remember: in spirit form, time stops.
Spirit form also makes a nice scout; again, time stops, and you can still use the middle mouse button to look around, allowing you to spot potentially painful surprises further afield than usual.
Also, the last boss is so much easier with spirit form :p
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I agree that there has to be some connection between Li and the Sunken City since the boxes on the shore of Li's base camp have the same logos on them as the boxes in the Sunken City, don't they?
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Uh, the sunken city used to be a human city above water, and Li is a human. They share icons for that very reason, to show that the sunken city was once a human city.
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Has anyone else noticed that the verse can be heard in most of the background music in one form or another if you listen carefuly enough? I noticed it when I was cycling through musics with the ancient turtles the music in open waters is particularly prominent in verseyness.
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I believe there is a correlation between The Veil being hot, The Icy Veil being indifferent, the old human city being sunken and the humans migrating into the sky.
But that still doesn't explain Li, he has a change of clothes, a boat and a camp, but no other humans. God's sake, he ruins everything.
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Hey, you know... Maybe something went wrong with human civilization? For instance, maybe there was a gigantic flood or something? Just as we are now endangered with - ice caps could melt and the world changed. It seems that Aquaria isn't rather our world, but who knows - maybe it's distant future of our planet? I'd rather believe that the name "Aquaria" is a name specific to this place and civilizations that were living in it, so they called it like that. We don't know anything about the surface, that it just exists. And also, we still don't know what secrets lurk beyond the darkness, deep in our planet's waters ;)
I'm still beating the boss, though. And I just can't wait to see the final ending, but i lack the time to finish the game - my work is a big pain and consumes most of my lifetime :(
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Has anyone else noticed that the verse can be heard in most of the background music in one form or another if you listen carefuly enough? I noticed it when I was cycling through musics with the ancient turtles the music in open waters is particularly prominent in verseyness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variation_(music) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variation_(music))
Noticed it plenty, and was glad it was actually part of the main story too. The Verse Theme is revisted in many forms throughout the soundtrack, up until it becomes a usable song.
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Yea that's how I picked up on how to play the song so quickly. I know alot of ppl get stuck at what to do with the 3 vertical symbols. The thing was, I had been trying to figure out the notes to play that song since the beginning of the game. When it showed me the right order, I just instinctively knew at that point that it was in 3 "verses".
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my vote is the girl is their daughter, and the boy is their son, and the next game will involve their two quests, one underwater and one in the sky, which will seem separate at first but become intertwined.
I agree that the girl and the boy are likely children of Naija. I think the intro picture is the explanation for everything. It shows Naija captured in a blue crystal. This is the same way other creatures in the game are captured. It suggests that Mia did this to Naija so that Naija could not interrupt Mia's plans for conquest above the sea. But the son, without his mother, goes searching throughout Aquaria because his mother is gone. Eventually he finds the crystal and touching it, just like Naija does in the main story with various creatures, he finds her there and gets information about what has happened, her memories become his. When in the story Naija is telling her story to you, it's really her telling her story to her son, now grown because as a baby he never had an opportunity to know. He learns the story that you just played out through to the end. He's flying off to find Mia and confront her to get his mother back.
That's my theory anyway. (This game is like a cross between Ecco and Metroid, though way better than Ecco; the large jellyfish in Mithalas look very much like a Metroid head sucker.) (I'm amazed at how large the game is, and I really appreciate an ending with substance, way better than the original Metroid.)
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I agree that the girl and the boy are likely children of Naija. I think the intro picture is the explanation for everything. I shows Naija captured in a blue crystal. This is the same way other creatures in the game are captured. It suggests that Mia did this to Naija so that Naija could not interrupt Mia's plans for conquest above the sea. But the son, without his mother, goes searching throughout Aquaria because his mother is gone. Eventually he finds the crystal and touching it, just like Naija does in the main story with various creatures, he finds her there and gets information about what has happened, her memories become his. When in the story Naija is telling her story to you, it's really her telling her story to her son, now grown because as a baby he never had an opportunity to know. He learns the story that you just played out through to the end. He's flying off to find Mia and confront her to get his mother back.
It's seems, that I had to agree with you - it's the most propable story explanation, yet only Derek and Alec will know the truth ;) But it's quite nice. Though, it's sad thing that Naija ends up like this :(, but I hold my fingers crossed that her children will finally free her and they will live happilly ever after. Btw - great story for a prequel :)
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Right Clicking in Spirit form
allows you to absorb enemy projectiles, projectiles disappear in the process (effectively eradicating a source of damage)
Right Click works in a small radius. Area of Effect is around the "spirit" (blue orb you control)
for every 5 projectiles absorbed
HP is healed incrementally
5 projectiles do not have to be onscreen at a time in order to heal - absorbed projectiles are still counted toward the next time you absorb (therefore you can enter and exit spirit form several times in order to 'gather' enough projectiles to heal)
moving into projectiles will damage you, so don't get too close
btw you can collect blue healing particles in spirit form by moving over them
some more information:
if attempts are made to absorb an enemy projectile in which the enemy has been destroyed, projectile will not be absorbed
Sorry, loke, but absorbing projectiles definitely does not work in spirit form (I am running 1.0.3 of Aquaria). I have tried it several times and there is no effect at all.
If it worked in previous versions, I can't tell. If that was the case, then Alec either deliberately or accidentally removed it from the game. May be he can give us the answer.
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Sorry, loke, but absorbing projectiles definitely does not work in spirit form (I am running 1.0.3 of Aquaria). I have tried it several times and there is no effect at all.
If it worked in previous versions, I can't tell. If that was the case, then Alec either deliberately or accidentally removed it from the game. May be he can give us the answer.
I'm using version 2007.12.17 (should be the most recent version) and used this ability on the first form of the final boss right now. It's there all right.
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Are you sure you're right-clicking? You don't just absorb them you have to get close and right click.
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I just beat the game and that was one of the best (but darkest) endings I've ever seen. :o When Mia began explaining her plans all I could think was "That B*tch!"
I first thought that the black-haired girl was an adult Naija, but then I realized that Naija has white hair and she's more than likely fully grown at the start of the game. Why is her daughter so much taller than her, though? :P Also, what did The Creator mean when he said Naija loved a symbol of chaos, obviously referring to Li?
I'll be joining Quemaqua's wife in throwing rocks at both your houses if we don't get a sequel. If you end up not being able to make a sequel, at least tell us what you had planned for the rest of the story. ;D
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Are you sure you're right-clicking? You don't just absorb them you have to get close and right click.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure about right-clicking and getting close (is two pixels close enough? ;-) )
...maybe it is not possible to absorb specific kinds of projectiles. I used the ability on different shots in the Open Waters zone. Have you guys used it on other bullets than from the bosses?
As for the sequel: we don't need an entirely new game. Just use the mod editor to make some more levels and continue the story. That'll be fine for me.
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I first thought that the black-haired girl was an adult Naija, but then I realized that Naija has white hair and she's more than likely fully grown at the start of the game. Why is her daughter so much taller than her, though? :P Also, what did The Creator mean when he said Naija loved a symbol of chaos, obviously referring to Li?
I think it's a boding future omen thing. Humans are destroying the planet in real life, in this game the kid probably realised that before he "died" and now hates humans.
And some kids are tallen than their parents. It's just what happens :).
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My thought on the "symbol of chaos" comment: Li was from outside of Eric's creations, outside of his ordered world. He would fear anyone or thing from the surface, as it would serve as a reminder that he is not "The Creator," but just a lonely little boy.
As for what gave Eric his powers, remember those falling rocks that took down the flying city? Did anyone else think they looked like they were covered in red crystals? I don't have a good screen capture utility, but if someone could post a screen shot, that would be interesting. And if the red crystals did fall from the sky, where did the blue crystals come from?
I am overjoyed at the prospect of a sequel, and hope it becomes a reality!
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As for what gave Eric his powers, remember those falling rocks that took down the flying city? Did anyone else think they looked like they were covered in red crystals? I don't have a good screen capture utility, but if someone could post a screen shot, that would be interesting. And if the red crystals did fall from the sky, where did the blue crystals come from?
what? something took down the flying city? I only saw a flying city in the ending, and it didn't look like it was going down.
I was also confused at the relationship between the ghost boy and The Creator. I didn't understand how much of that speech at the end was the boy, and how much was The Creator. If The Creator created all the races, inspired by a song from his mother as he was a human child, then that means that he didn't create even all life on that planet; just the ones in the water.
And if he created all those races, then the human civilization at least from the sunken city, is very old.
Li isn't a survivor of the flying city from the intro, however. That city was destroyed and the only survivor was the boy: Eric.
Uh, the sunken city used to be a human city above water, and Li is a human. They share icons for that very reason, to show that the sunken city was once a human city.
See, this confuses me. They're both human. Alec suggest that a boy named Eric (which everyone is assuming is the ghost boy, although I haven't heard it stated anywhere) is the only survivor of the flying city. Why is he in the sunken city then? The sunken city is then somehow related to the flying city?
Also, I don't remember a flying city in the intro; only in the ending.
Li is a total mystery. He's human, but not from the flying city. I guess he could be from... a city on the surface, and still part of the same race as the ghost boy. (used to be) He does have supplies that have the same logo as the sunken city. So perhaps all the human cities on the surface, in the air, and under the water have the same logo...
anyways... seeing a flying city and a flying boat and suggestion of a sequel, my immediate reaction was we're going to get flying forms. I wonder if the engine needs to be rewritten/tweaked for that, or if it can just be scripted right in. ;>
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..the sunken city IS the flying city, we guess? Wouldn't that make sense?
Also you see the intro the first time you play, but if you missed it click the blue crystal on the title screen.
The Creator is just what the boy called himself when he learned to create things due to the unnamed spirit that inhabits him once he "dies". He doesn't give an age, but I'd guess it's been quite a while since the flying city was smashed during the intro.
So yeah, watch the intro, it'd help you understand a lot.
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I don't think the sunken City is the city, which was destroyed in the intro, although they can be somewhat familiar. If you look a bit more at the ruins in the sunken, you'll see they have been built on that exact place where they are standing (all the pipes and concrete in the background - to much as for the flying city, and they are conected with the ground). I think this city is somewhat related to all the rest of human cities and I think it was rather destroyed by a flood. I also believe Li is somekind of a scientist or a adventurer (that's why he was so curious about the Sunken City when he found it with Naija). Propably he's searching for something from the human past. This also fits him and all of humanity well as a "symbol of Chaos" because it could tell us that humans had done something tragic in the past and the planet's surface changed. And we can also suppose, that 1) Li got to the Veil to search for Naija 2) He was also looking for the Sunken City or something related to it. But still, we don't know the exact background of the game so it's hard to guess anything ???
These are my thoughts about the story. What do you think about this?
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Just a hint: The roman Empire's symbol was the eagle.
Both Li's stuff, the sunken city and the endgame's flying boat parts share the same symbol. Could it simply be that the eagle is a sign of providence/government?
As for Mia, I am shocked at the ease she can control Naija. Just remove conciousness like that.
What I would like to know is what happened in the end? Did the races get restored?
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From what I understood, the spirits that you freed in the body came back to life once you defeated the creator. I assume that the revived spirits somehow managed to restore their respective races.
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I'm pretty sure that the Sunken City is the floating city from the intro. It makes sense, and they do share a fountain.
But then again, we see the floating city in the background during the ending! Perhaps it's another flying city, maybe the one that Li hails from?
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Well, I for one is rather depressed by the ending. I was hoping that after all that fighting and strife Naija would finally be happy and not ripped away like that.
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From what I understood, the spirits that you freed in the body came back to life once you defeated the creator. I assume that the revived spirits somehow managed to restore their respective races.
Obviously, it could happen. But We can't say that, because they were just single persons and new beings don't come from the air, you know what I mean ;). So I wouldn't say the mithalans and crotite or druniads could revive their races, and again we don't know anything about those characters. It's also hard to title the druniads as a "race", because they are more likely to be some sort of creatures. But it's hard to say anything about them, and especially about the messengers - they were really a mysterious race. We have the last crotite warrior, prince Drask, three messengers and a druniad. I think it rather has an emotional aspect at the end of the game, than a real meaning. Naija freed them, so now they will live once again. But what they will do, will be a mystery.
Well, I for one is rather depressed by the ending. I was hoping that after all that fighting and strife Naija would finally be happy and not ripped away like that.
Yeah, I agree with that and it rather beats us all, fellow Aquaria players :(
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Obviously, it could happen. But We can't say that, because they were just single persons and new beings don't come from the air, you know what I mean Wink. So I wouldn't say the mithalans and crotite or druniads could revive their races, and again we don't know anything about those characters. It's also hard to title the druniads as a "race", because they are more likely to be some sort of creatures. But it's hard to say anything about them, and especially about the messengers - they were really a mysterious race. We have the last crotite warrior, prince Drask, three messengers and a druniad. I think it rather has an emotional aspect at the end of the game, than a real meaning. Naija freed them, so now they will live once again. But what they will do, will be a mystery.
Or the Creator's last act was to restore them?
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I was thinking that the Creator's last act was to bring back all of his destroyed creations, which makes me wonder if the respective Gods were brought back as well. We did see several of each race, except for the Prince's people, as we only see him. But there is that black-haired girl....
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I was thinking that the Creator's last act was to bring back all of his destroyed creations, which makes me wonder if the respective Gods were brought back as well. We did see several of each race, except for the Prince's people, as we only see him.
For sure it's also possible.
But there is that black-haired girl....
Are you trying to mention something? :D
Obviously, there can be a lot of propable expectations on how about the story would go after the end of game. We could mention them all forever, but the real truth can only lie in the heads of game creators. If there will be a sequel we will know it, believe me ;) therefore I wouldn't want to spoil the upcoming fun...
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which makes me wonder if the respective Gods were brought back as well.
We see the energy temple boss dead during that cinematic, so I find that doubtful.
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Another question would be how much of the living creatures (and the ones that lived) of Aquaria the creator made with his own powers.
Perhaps he just created the thirteen we see displayed before his chamber (where you fight his first and second form). And the thirteen used their powers to create the creatures of Aquaria.
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I thought perhaps killing The Creator undid all the destruction he caused, although he also created them, so it's strange that it wouldn't undo their creation in the first place. :>
I guess we can't really figure anything out from this. We don't even know if the whole city fell from the sky or just parts of it. If it got put back up there, then the powers aren't limited to just what was created underwater after he fell.
and I thought it was said that the boy was the only survivor. but... he's a ghost. it sure seemed like he drowned. and how did the city and the boy end up under the abyss? (then again, how do shafts of sunlight constantly shine through to deep cave areas in other parts of the game unless they're relatively thin walls between the cave areas inside and huge open areas where light can get through a hole at many angles throughout the day?) I suppose it's possible that everything above it is actually part of the city, and the "sunken city" area is just the bottom, or that original parts that are exposed...
The whole story is so vague. :S
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Another question would be how much of the living creatures (and the ones that lived) of Aquaria the creator made with his own powers.
Perhaps he just created the thirteen we see displayed before his chamber (where you fight his first and second form). And the thirteen used their powers to create the creatures of Aquaria.
All I know was that he created the gods (I don't know if he created all of them, it's in the ending, he said something like he wanted to feel loved again, but everything he created had their own mind), and some of the primes? (Nautilus Prime was in the ending xD that's all I can remember)
also b4 u fight the the Creator (body I)
u can see a lot faces on the wall (Naija's face was on it?)
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also b4 u fight the the Creator (body I)
u can see a lot faces on the wall (Naija's face was on it?)
Mithalas says that Naija is the child of the thirteenth. The last face on the wall, which just happens to be the thirteenth face, is probably Mia's.
Did anyone notice that one of the faces kind of resembles a seahorse? That could be the Narcassi god or some kind of seahorse prime :).
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Just played through the ending again, noticed a few things:
Do we know all all of the faces in the wall before you face the creator? I recognize Mithalas, the energy god, the forest mother, and I think that the sun temple god was in there as well. There's also what could be the Nautilus and Octopus Primes. The last one, the one that also shows up in the menu screen, I assume is Momma Mia. Anyone recognize the others?
Noticed that Eric says "The Spirit that gave me life stayed within me..." Might be reading into the capitalization too much, but that sounds like something possessed him and gave him the power to shape life under the water. Possibly something inside the red crystals?
I'm not so sure that the spirits you release were able to restore their respective races. We see one Energy temple guy, one Forest guy, the Prince, and two of the binding people (there was one that taught you the song, and the one that you freed from The Body?)
Now who does that black-haired blue-skinned girl at the end remind me of? Maybe a certain princesses? Maybe the Prince was able to bring back his family from wherever he left for...
Paid more attention to the sketches during the ending this time. I really like the volcano version of the energy form. It's kind of a nice look into the eariler versions of the game, which if I remember the interviews right, were going to be more of an RPG-ish underwater world. Also, I see that the Mia sketch has manacles on her wrist, the kind that you might chain someone up with.
I wonder if the next game (which please please please let happen because it would be awesome yes) will have a more populated world or worlds? Maybe another resounding theme replacing the loneliness of this one?
I would love to go through all of Derek's sketches for the game, but if they do continue this story, there might be too many spoilers to show them on the web)
Oh, and I didn't get a good look at the flying city at the end, but it's flipped from the flying city during the intro? Does this mean that the intro city was destroyed and became the Sunken City, or are we just looking at the city from another angle? Hmmm... Ether way, there's a lack of little blimps and flying ships around the end city, so perhaps the city was just rendered inhabitable?
Man, I love speculation!
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That Mia in the ending can't be Naija's true mother..
When you look at Naija's childhood memories her mother seems warm and caring, not the world conguering/slaying type.
Just compare the difference in Mia first lovingly cradling Naija in her memory and then talking about "burping babies" in the ending.
Maybe the spirit of the creator posessed Mia after it left the boy?
Only the sequel will tell. And speaking of which, you wrote "to be continued" in the ending so that is a promise. You can sign in blood here:
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That Mia in the ending can't be Naija's true mother..
When you look at Naija's childhood memories her mother seems warm and caring, not the world conguering/slaying type.
Just compare the difference in Mia first lovingly cradling Naija in her memory and then talking about "burping babies" in the ending.
Maybe the spirit of the creator posessed Mia after it left the boy?
Hrm. Well, that does lend credit to the idea that perhaps Naija was placed into Mithalan society, although I think the person who suggested that might have said Mia also went with her. Perhaps she's not really Mithalan, but some kind of demi-god that can assume any form. (which is backed up by the game mechanics)
I think someone already asked if the first memory in Mithalas showed a woman with Niaja, and whether she looked like Mia or not... curious to find the answer to that. (I'm sure I have a save-slot near that point, as I saved frequently in a new slot)
Speaking of memories, why is it that you can click on the spots you gain memories? And why does it bring up your inventory? When that FIRST happened, I assumed that there was more I needed to do with my inventory to finish, and if not at the moment, then to come back later to properly unlock it. :S Strange.
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When you look at Naija's childhood memories her mother seems warm and caring, not the world conguering/slaying type.
Hypocretes are strange people. They might spend their entire lives without any positive emotion, only to give much of it for their child. She is ambitious woman that I can tell, and she might have gotten crazy hiding from the Creator.
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Mia was too perfect, even for the Creator. She propably had her own expectations and as Zixinus said, she was a very ambiotious type of person. With her powers and charisma she could do anything. But I think she was also a caring mother in the right time, although she could change her mind as the time passed, because the story tells about the only true reason she had raised Naija was a hope that her daughter will join her in the future. She ereased Naija's memories so her daughter could rewrite her life and history. The world of Aquaria is bursted with many unknown forces and prehaps Mia knew about them (remember that she was the most perfect creation, after all) and wanted them to be drained by Naija, so she would become a powerful being (Naija was a "flawed" creation, but came from Mia). The only thing Mia didn't expected was that Naija will have such dreams - she was alone all the time, so it was obvious that her warm heart ached to be loved and she wanted to share that love with someone. It's sad that we could see Mia's true face in the ending - she's an awful being, after all.
Oh, and Naija was a mithalan girl - it's really obvious, although she didn't belonged to the race in the same line as other Mithalans. When we create, we wan't to make something as our resemblance, so mia created Naija as a mithalan girl, just like she was looking like. We can't also forget that Mia was the most precious creation of the Creator, because she was somewhat an almost perfect and succesful reflection of his own mother. I think this tells us all - Mia had the powers of the Creator and all the love and care of his mother. This two faces could fought against each other all the time...
It's an interesting view to see Mia being possesed by the soul of Creator, ot the "Creator" himself, as we can't agree on this fact who he really was. Although I see Mia even as a more powerful being than the Creator...
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I agree that Naija was raised as a Mithalan, as they bear the most resemblance.
I don't know if Mia is more powerful then the creator, but she's certainly smarter and more devious. The Creator, for all his power, had the mind of a child.
Went back and looked at those faces in the wall:
1) No clue...
2) Crab - Hey, fought one of those!
3) Octopus - Fought one of these too
4) Turtle - maybe the same one up in the veil? Seeing as it lives near the surface, it could just leave the water when Eric has a tantrum.
5) Not sure, some sort of piranha head maybe?
6) Seahorse - Like Wedixy said, maybe the Narcassi god?
7) Strange fish face? Maybe the god of the messengers?
8) Energy Temple god
9) Forest Mother
10) Sun Temple god
11) No clue...
12) Mithalis
13) Mia
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That Mia in the ending can't be Naija's true mother..
When you look at Naija's childhood memories her mother seems warm and caring, not the world conquering/slaying type.
Just compare the difference in Mia first lovingly cradling Naija in her memory and then talking about "burping babies" in the ending.
Mia probably changed over time, or maybe she created Naija just because she wanted to kill the boy? Or maybe the spirit which "helped" the boy went to Mia....?
In the third memory, it showed Mia was caring for a baby (Naija)....That's probably after Mia left the boy and then created Naija immediately (borned in the abyss....-_-)
Wait wait...errr
Anyways, it was a prequel xD, we won't be able to know something until the sequel came out.
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Perhaps the presence of the creator stopped Mia from venturing out of Aquaria, so she got her daughter to do the dirty work of killing the creator, but that's just speculation.
The first face resembles (atleast t me) the Nautilus prime. And the eleventh face reminds me of those two guys seen in the credits (as artwork).
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I wouldn't put it past that B***H Mia to pull a stunt as complicated and intricate as all of you are describing, but is it not possible that she wasn't always evil? Sure she may have had some grand plan for Naija but perhaps in the beginning she was just a loving mother...as the creator intended. Of course...all of the creator's other creations strayed eventually...maybe all of his creations are flawed after all...
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I can see Nautilus Prime for the first face. I guess I just couldn't think of it out of profile.
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I wouldn't put it past that B***H Mia to pull a stunt as complicated and intricate as all of you are describing, but is it not possible that she wasn't always evil? Sure she may have had some grand plan for Naija but perhaps in the beginning she was just a loving mother...as the creator intended. Of course... all of the creator's other creations strayed eventually...maybe all of his creations are flawed after all...
Yeah, this is the most certain truth in the game. You can't make perfect things. Mia surely was a loving mother for Naija, the memory from abyss speaks for itself.
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I wouldn't put it past that B***H Mia to pull a stunt as complicated and intricate as all of you are describing, but is it not possible that she wasn't always evil? Sure she may have had some grand plan for Naija but perhaps in the beginning she was just a loving mother...as the creator intended. Of course...all of the creator's other creations strayed eventually...maybe all of his creations are flawed after all...
The way I see it, the creator corrupted his creations after they ran away from him. They were flawed in creator's eyes because they had free will and left him. So he took revenge and corrupted his creations (the texts in the cathedral boss room and the sun temple support revenge).
He might have caught Mia sometime after she gave birth to Naija.
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That might explain why she appers all ghosty.
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Just beat it today, and finished reading through this whole thread. I must say I agree with the idea that this whole story is told through the blue crystal that the boy touches in the end, hence the main menu picture. All in all, loved the game for its freedom and X-treme wall jumping sequences.
Edit: And who can forget the music?
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Didn't Mia say "we don't want anyone finding your memories" or something like that? Perhaps her memories were scattered throughout Aquaria and Naija's son found them all and used the blue crystal to see them.
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Makes sense, the blue crystals do contain spirits/memories of the past as proved in the game
Also, the identity of the black haired girl in the 2nd ending can be explained with a little hunting in the editor :D (Not exactly a name or anything, but a rough idea as to where she fits in relationshipwise)
Also, I'm from the school that says don't make a cliffhanger ending unless you plan to make a sequal :p
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Am I the only one thinking that the creator REcreated the flying city underwater?
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Am I the only one thinking that the creator REcreated the flying city underwater?
I don't think so. What purposes would it hang? We still have an emotional one, but again - the city doesn't look like a created one - take a few deeper looks and you'll understand. The ghosts who wander there are also a mystery, if the city would be a recreated construction. No, the Sunken City was long before the flying one, creator and his creations. There is only one question, begging to be asked - why is it underwater?
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I had a feeling the opening had something to do with the ending. I had wondered how she would end up like that, and well, defying your mother from joining forces and taking over the above ground is 100% qualification for petrification.
As for the backstory, I am torn between whether or not Naija was actually raised by Mia. If you think about it, The Creator loved Mia a lot, so she probably was to stay with him down in " The Body" or wherever his spirit actually lay (since he also had a spirit in the Sunken city, correct? Or was that another ghost boy?) If you think about the different age stages of Naija in her memories (baby in Abyss, young in Mithalas, preteen(?) in the Veil) shows that Mia probably left The Creator shortly before or after she created Naija, hence the cradle in The Abyss. So that might have been Mia after all, but she either must have become crooked in her powers and changed over time, or, Naija was planted in Mithilian society (it's obvious she lived there.)
The boy on the airship is most definitely her son. I swore I heard someone say "Mom or mother" after he took his hand off the crystal but that could be me just making stuff up and hearing things. Whatever the case, he looks a great deal like Li, except with green skin and apparently amphibious lungs so he's most certainly their "hybrid" son. The sleeping girl, at first I obviously thought that could be his sister, since she too had dark hair like Li, but her clothes looked Mithalian. then I remembered there was mention of a Mithalian princess, so I thought that might be some sort of lost member of the royal family that escaped the slaughter that had occurred and she has been alone all this time, somewhat like Najia. Just a thought, a far fetched one at the very least but it's still a theory. I might have to beat the game again to see that, where she was sleeping exactly.
What is considered the "good" ending, did I see that? I'm pretty sure I got all the memories since she didn't tell me to look harder aka you rushed. I thought I saw a wedding screenshot somewhere, but there was nothing of that sort in the ending, was that a mod?
I immediately saw the eagles on Li's camp as pertaining to a city or government. I think he was there again under orders to look for something, or was just studying. If I can remember correctly, did he have glasses when he was a child? I thought of him more as a scientist than a person from a government, not many people from government go scuba diving. Seemed he was doing research.
I'm a bit confused about the little ghost boy, was that Eric? Or a representation of him?
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The way I see it, the creator corrupted his creations after they ran away from him. They were flawed in creator's eyes because they had free will and left him. So he took revenge and corrupted his creations (the texts in the cathedral boss room and the sun temple support revenge).
He might have caught Mia sometime after she gave birth to Naija.
Sure, races were destroyed, but I don't think Mia was 'corrupted' by him, that just seems a bit contrived. I think she was always corrupted but he couldn't see it - look at his attempt to recreate his mother and father in the Sunken City.
No, the Sunken City was long before the flying one, creator and his creations. There is only one question, begging to be asked - why is it underwater?
Eh? Because... the city crashed into the water? I don't see why there'd be any doubt that the Sunken City was the flying one - it shares the fountain, it's haunted by that city's ghosts, we saw a city crashing into the water at the beginning, it shares the symbols of Li's race which implies to me he's something of an archaeologist looking for the crashed city... Sure, Occam's razor doesn't apply to fiction, but why would it be anything other?
I'm a bit confused about the little ghost boy, was that Eric? Or a representation of him?
I assumed that he really was there - that some vestigial part of The Creator resided in the Sunken City, dwelling on his loss. Incidentally, you've got the 'secret' ending if you regain control of Naija after the cutscene depicting the aftermath of the Creator's death.
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But why is the city buried so deeply underwater? Even if the boy/creator took a while to die or get his powers of make Mia, which eventually made Naija, I just don't get it why it is buried so deep, and to think of it, the Creator DID create The Body, Right?
Also, something that crashes, into ocean or land, doesn't usually keep integrity, aka: it falls apart. And just like you just said, his attempt to make his mother and father underwater, just like the "sunken" city. And things that are supposed to be above water, like wood and other building materials, this also aged in time underwater.
Or last possibility is that he just created The Veil and Kelp Forest above the Sunken City, but that would mean he controls land too, which also isn't right.
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But why is the city buried so deeply underwater? Even if the boy/creator took a while to die or get his powers of make Mia, which eventually made Naija, I just don't get it why it is buried so deep, and to think of it, the Creator DID create The Body, Right?
Also, something that crashes, into ocean or land, doesn't usually keep integrity, aka: it falls apart. And just like you just said, his attempt to make his mother and father underwater, just like the "sunken" city. And things that are supposed to be above water, like wood and other building materials, this also aged in time underwater.
Or last possibility is that he just created The Veil and Kelp Forest above the Sunken City, but that would mean he controls land too, which also isn't right.
Somehow I wonder if this much thought was really put into it. :> Whether the sunken city was from the flying city or was recreated, I think will have little to do with whether that LARGE area could have somehow fit intact through the large amount of narrow passages above it, or whether everything between it and the surface are actually covered over after it fell.
and I think with the Creator's death, he probably brought back other Mithalans, not just the prince. so that black-haired girl could be the princess.
So... anyone think Eric = Alec? :> both creators of Aquaria. :> apply some lazy English vowels and some R/L interchangeable.
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As Xiagan put it; http://www.bit-blot.com/forum/index.php?topic=503.msg6379#msg6379
Am I the only one who thinks Eric and Mia are an unusual mix, being that they seem to represent the respective evil figures of Gnosticism and Christianity (Eric= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge ) (Mia=Lucifer, both beautiful yet evil manipulative creations of a greater entity that rebelled)?
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Have we determined that Mia is indeed less powerful than the creator? There have been several theories in this thread alone that could easily fit without being out of place.
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Have we determined that Mia is indeed less powerful than the creator? There have been several theories in this thread alone that could easily fit without being out of place.
We don't really know...but we're definitely sure she's smarter
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Have we determined that Mia is indeed less powerful than the creator? There have been several theories in this thread alone that could easily fit without being out of place.
Well, we know that she wasn't confident enough to take him on herself - whether that means she's less powerful or is just self-protective is open to interpretation. Or perhaps the Creator has greater power over things which he's created directly than those which have been created by others.
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Read these whole 9 pages and here's what I've gotten to. Am close to 100% sure of the next facts:
a. The Sunken City IS the city you see in the intro. Either that or a recreated copy (in the eyes of the little boy longing for his home). Not to mention that in the ending of the game, he speaks about it IN PAST TENSE. So yeah, there won't be any flying city in the sequel :)
b. The girl at the end, in same cave with Li and Naija's son - can be their son's WIFE. We learn in the end that all the species were released from their cursed forms and managed to hopefully multiply and rejoice. We are shown a symbolic scene with one of each of the species, suggesting that they were reborn "from ashes"..
c. The boy flying away at the end can also mean something else - legacy of the creator, the verse flowing through him drove him to his own creation - making a world in the sky :) I believe opposites do attract, as we all know. So, boy in the sky, drawing pictures of sea (intro); gets in the sea, makes own world. Boy in the end, living all his life in the sea, longs for the sky; rushes to attempt at making his own creation.. You might say "But Li wasn't one of The Creator's made beings". Even so, Naija says all her features and abilities seemed to fit Li very well ;) Plus, their son has genes from the both :P
Just my 2 cents. Do throw rocks at me! Shield Song, turned ON! :D
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So what you're saying is that Naija and Li got a son and that that son had alot of godlike powers which he used to create a city in the sky, because he was able to because he is half human?
I think that's a bit too farfetched.
I think the humans just rebuild the city.
Further I'd have no clue what the son would want or do there.
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a. The Sunken City IS the city you see in the intro. Either that or a recreated copy (in the eyes of the little boy longing for his home). Not to mention that in the ending of the game, he speaks about it IN PAST TENSE. So yeah, there won't be any flying city in the sequel :)
I can definitely agree with you there - I don't know why anyone would thing anything else. Though just because one flying city crashed into the waves doesn't mean there can't be a different one in a sequel...
The other stuff, not so sure, they seem to be fairly large leaps to make from what we've seen, certainly too much for me to be 'close to %100 sure' of their truth.
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a. The Sunken City IS the city you see in the intro. Either that or a recreated copy (in the eyes of the little boy longing for his home). Not to mention that in the ending of the game, he speaks about it IN PAST TENSE. So yeah, there won't be any flying city in the sequel :)
I can definitely agree with you there - I don't know why anyone would thing anything else. Though just because one flying city crashed into the waves doesn't mean there can't be a different one in a sequel...
The other stuff, not so sure, they seem to be fairly large leaps to make from what we've seen, certainly too much for me to be 'close to %100 sure' of their truth.
There is only one thing you all forgot. The door... If the creator recreated the city, why he put this massive gate at the only entrance? And why only Li had the key/used to know how to open them? It's rather funny to think the only purpose of the door was to stop Naija or Mia from entering the city. And the details familiar from those from the city in the intro - isn't it obvious that just Alec and Derek used the same tiles? If the people had the same tech tree, all the cities can look quite similiar, but the sunken one even doesn't look similiar at some points to the one from intro at all.
I can still hold to the creative version of the city or still believe it just crashed into the waters, but then it would be just too complicated. Maybe there's also a story before everything started... Imo, this city has a symbolic sense. It uses to show the weakness and vanity of the human kind. Everything we create, no matter how huge it would become, won't stand the test of time and will finally turn into dust an rubble. I know Derek has a way to come into the details, so when you look at sunken city, you see it's attached to the ground (all those walls in the background, all those pipes 'n stuff). If it would fall through the waters we would propably see a pile of rocks, rubble and twisted steel. This of course doesn't mean the city couldn't be recreated by the Creator, but... If he had so trumendeous powers, why the city looks like a giant, underwater ruin? In that case there are only two answers: He didn't/couldn't succedded as with the rest of his creations (flawless things), or he just wanted it to look like this.
Anyways, at that time topic tells very much :)
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Hmmm? I'm arguing for it being the real deal, not recreated. That Li can open the door suggests that it's a door from Li's civilisation, and it seems likely that Li was there to research the crash of the city itself - I didn't 'forget' the door, it's a key part of my understanding. I think it's silly to argue that it's just that the same tiles were used, as new ones could easily have been created, unless overlap between the two is intentional. I believe the inclusion of the exact same fountain - which is included very clearly in an otherwise sparse screen of the city in the opening animation - is a very deliberate attempt to make you connect the two. It isn't just a generic design either - a dude with a bird on his arm held up by fish is not the sort of thing you'd expect to be popping up everywhere :) There is a thing called 'suspension of disbelief', you'd do well to look it up ;) Suffice to say, in the world of Aquaria, it's entirely possible that a city which crashed on the water wasn't entirely obliterated - keep in mind the city was sitting on top of a huge rock base - particularly when the creators make a point of showing it to you.
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I'm kinda worried about posting here, (I don't want to ruin too much about the sequel, and its interesting to hear all the different interpretations) but I want to clear up a couple of things.
The world of Aquaria is 3D, (i.e. if it was a real place you could visit, it would have a Z axis) but it is presented in the game as 2D. I think this is leading to some of the confusion.
(http://bit-blot.com/scrap/openspace.png)
A couple quotes of interest:
"Li was particularly excited by these ruins...
...it was if he recognized them.
They did not look like the work of Aquarians.
I suspected that they were from beyond the Veil.
Perhaps Li's world was destroyed as well..."
"Perhaps". This is only Naija's assumption, its not explained in the game where Li is actually from. (although we can guess it was either the city seen at the beginning, or a similar one; since there don't seem to be any other living humans in the waters) The only human Naija knows at this point is Li, but she also has no knowledge of anything that exists outside of the waters. Naija picks up that Li is lonely and searching for something, but she doesn't know why. Derek and I do, but I don't think we'll get into that until the sequel.
"There are much greater worlds above ripe for the taking." - Mia
:o
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Okay, even though this explains some, it also doesn't, it's not answer to if Creator made it or if the city crashed. Yes, I already knew Aquaria is a bit 3d, multiple layered, seeing you have open waters and caves, which reminds me a bit of Metroid again, but I just think of Metroid too much.
And about the door. It still opens. I mean, what door still opens after crashing hard? And IceD like you said: "Everything we create, no matter how huge it would become, won't stand the test of time and will finally turn into dust an rubble.", so did the ruins from the city. At the beginning he wanted to recreate everything, but after long times he saw that everything slowly became corrupted and stuff, well, so did the city.
I still hard believe that the creator recreated the city, just because of the reason that it is almost impossible that it's very deep in the ocean, even under the most things.
And well, earthquakes exist, but that would make the ruined city even more rubbled.
And about the door, he just wanted Li with you to annihilate him, right?
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I think it was plain as hell before but now, with Alecs explanations, it is überclear that this "sunken" (= at some point it was above the water) city is the one that crashed into the sea. There are even ghosts of the people that lived with Eric in the flying city!
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I dont think its called "sunken" city for nothing. if the creator merely re created it, it would be called something else, combined with the fact that the big gateway still exists, i think it is the one which crashed into the sea..
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Yeah, I can finally agree with this. Lets be honest - sunken was the flying city. It was a big piece of rocks and ground so when it has fallen, it propably laid down onto the bottom of the sea, merging with some of it's underwater ground. So the door could be also an entrance gate to the city ;). Li propably knew this, if he only came from similiar town like this one :P And he was propably searching for this lost city (adventurer & scientist in one, just like Indiana Jones ). The rest of reasons are more or less unknown.
Lets stop spoiling and predicting stuff. It will be better to wait for the sequel, then we will see and our curiosity will be fulfilled ;)
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Man, you talk like every thing you thought of is right, you peopel didn't even think HOW those rock would perfectly stay above the city and there are no rocks even on the floor, the door still works, but Naija doesn't even know HOW to use a door, seeing the first one she had she SUNG it open. So she needed Li for that. The "sunken" city has aged and it's called a sunken city as it's underwater.
I just see almost no chance that the city would be so intact if something would be collapsed ontop of it and that the door still works, it all just doesn't make sense if the city actually FELL into the water.
And so far I can read, Alec said nothing about this being the actual sunken city. Just being a city underwater and being samiliar to the flying one.
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It makes sense to me that it fell, for reasons described above.
I think if anything its a visual thing that you're confused about. The city really isn't intact.
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Well, ok, but alot of buildings are too intact, no half buildings and stuff, but I guess that's searching it too far. Though this does mean you just confirmed that this was the flying city.
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The presence of the Creator/Eric's spirit helps explain why things are arranged nicer than they would be under normal conditions. Presumably he tried to fix things up as well as he could. If you think about it, that area is largely a projection of what's in his mind. The insects are tied to faceless children teasing him, the girl that he cared about is there in as a spirit, presumably called there by his power. The mother and father boss are his interpretation of his mother and father. (this is hinted at when they turn back into spirits)
The presence of a human door is symbolic to how the Creator feels about his human component. (its locked away in the dark, while he tries to forget it and pursue other things)
The sequence where the Creator kidnaps Li points out that the Creator and Eric's spirit are two separate entities, but they are connected. The ending goes a bit further into that.
I think the identity of sunken city being the flying city in the beginning is explained pretty clearly in the game when you talk to the ghost kid at the end where he shows you the flying city from the intro while talking about "on that day everything changed".
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Well, seeing it's not exactly stated in the game, anything would've been possible, but now that you've stated it... Thanks. ^-^
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Well there you go alphasoldier, you were looking into it way to deeply, honestly, if the city fell, it would have been shattered. Thats just going uuber deep.!
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Well, at least I got a clear answer from Alec himself. =p Sorry for being such an ass.
Also, I wonder if we are going to be explained how the creator got his powers in the second part. x3
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I still hard believe that the creator recreated the city, just because of the reason that it is almost impossible that it's very deep in the ocean, even under the most things.
I think that was Alec's point about the fact that it's a 3D world - there is plenty of open ocean behind the area in which you play. When things sink, they do sink 'very deep in the ocean', as long as they're denser than what lies below them.
And about the door, he just wanted Li with you to annihilate him, right?
I figured that the door was just a relic from the city, and Li happened to be from a similar city so could open it. It's a fairly study-looking metallic door, not half as fragile as brick-and-mortar. I assume the Creator's kidnapping was a spur-of-the-moment thing after he perceived Naija with Li through Eric - as he explains, he was lonely, so he needed bait to draw you to him. That, or he's myopic and meant to take you instead :P
IceD, I like the idea of the city being a symbol of the 'weakness and vanity of humankind' - and I don't think its literal nature necessarily precludes that interpretation. Hell, the whole game revolves around the Creator's weakness and vanity in contrast with Naija's selflessness.
But anyway, yay for people actually agreeing with me now -.-
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I still hard believe that the creator recreated the city, just because of the reason that it is almost impossible that it's very deep in the ocean, even under the most things.
I think that was Alec's point about the fact that it's a 3D world - there is plenty of open ocean behind the area in which you play. When things sink, they do sink 'very deep in the ocean', as long as they're denser than what lies below them.
And about the door, he just wanted Li with you to annihilate him, right?
I figured that the door was just a relic from the city, and Li happened to be from a similar city so could open it. It's a fairly study-looking metallic door, not half as fragile as brick-and-mortar. I assume the Creator's kidnapping was a spur-of-the-moment thing after he perceived Naija with Li through Eric - as he explains, he was lonely, so he needed bait to draw you to him. That, or he's myopic and meant to take you instead :P
IceD, I like the idea of the city being a symbol of the 'weakness and vanity of humankind' - and I don't think its literal nature necessarily precludes that interpretation. Hell, the whole game revolves around the Creator's weakness and vanity in contrast with Naija's selflessness.
But anyway, yay for people actually agreeing with me now -.-
Yeah, I just got a little oveboard :P. Too much sf and fantasy stories read to see such simple truth now :D
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Sorry, KingAl, but I just wanted to be sure, so sorry to you too Alec, but I did got you to talk. ^-^
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The sunken city is under the direct influence of Eric's mind due to the nature of it being the place where he died, making the link between the spirit world and the material world stronger. Since he was the one chosen to become the Creator, he has additional powers beyond the other spirits close to him that are called back. (his girlfriend, his mom and his dad) He tried to rebuild the city as best he could from whatever ruins were left.
The level represents his inner state, which is why you have a human door, a long narrow passage that goes deeper into a twisted cave. (Eric's self-expression/feelings made manifest)
I think Eric rebuilt the door as a compromise with the Creator. The Creator probably wanted to seal it off forever or destroy it, but Eric "argued" for rebuilding that door - secretly hoping that someone would eventually find him.
The second section is like reliving Eric's past; you're digging deeper into his subconscious to get to the truth of what he is. Its not until you get to his most vulnerable place (his relationship with his parents -> the mom&dad boss) and until you become a symbol of the disaster at the beginning of the game (you destroy his parents) that the Creator is able exploit Eric's weakness to find his location and reach in to capture Li as bait.
In terms of the Creator as a character, he's ashamed of his human part, but then his human part itself misses other humans and wants to just be a kid again. He's very conflicted in that sense. Part of the cycle of creation and destruction was that he would create something and then become ashamed of it, because it reminded him too much of himself (probably in the case of the Krotites) or because it wasn't enough like his ideal "perfect woman". (something like the Erulians or Druniads, who were pretty in a sense but not conscious on the level of a human being)
When he did manage to create the "perfect woman" (Mia; as in the only woman he could truly fall in love with) she was far too good for him; she had her own free will and desires and wanted to live her own life. She broke free and tried to raise Naija away from the Creator. However, he pursued her with his minions and forced her to keep running and trying to raise Naija in different areas of Aquaria. Eventually Mia discovered the Mithalan Priests and used their power to hide from the Creator and manipulate Naija into destroying the Creator. (Naija has different powers than Mia, which would be one of the points elaborated on in the sequel.)
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Now I know, how really deeper sense this game has. I've always felt like it is complicated in terms of understanding, but never that much :o
Amazing how you create things. ;)
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The creator wanted to create Mia as someone he could love? Thats funny because on playing the game and watching through the ending, thats not something that really rubs off . First off, the fact that the creator and eric are two seperate entities is hard to gather, but i thought that the Creator/Eric/Small boy who he apparently really is wanted just company or something akin to a mother?
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The creator wanted to create Mia as someone he could love? Thats funny because on playing the game and watching through the ending, thats not something that really rubs off . First off, the fact that the creator and eric are two seperate entities is hard to gather, but i thought that the Creator/Eric/Small boy who he apparently really is wanted just company or something akin to a mother?
Never heard of the oedipus complex? ;)
And the creator and Eric are not two separate entities but two parts of the same entity, right?
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The intro the first time you run the game shows Naija very faintly as Eric internally says "Mother" as he loses consciousness after drowning.
At the end he explains that he was trying to recreate the love he felt from his Mother. Once he transformed after dying, he felt totally alone. (a lot of the themes in the game revolve around feeling alone; see Naija) He both set out to make companions and eventually (as his skill at creating life got better) make a lover, or a replacement for the love he felt from his mother.
(Freud, eat your heart out?)
In the Sunken City you lure the spirit of the human girl that he loved towards him with flowers. There's an extra connection there that Nature Form is the form that lures her. (the Forest Goddess is partly based on his memory of the human girl, partly on his Mother. the idea being that "woman" to him is an uncontrollable force of nature that can break his heart at any moment, which ends up being what happens with Mia.)
At the end of the game, Mia has escaped him, but he is still desperately lonely, so he decides to try to keep Naija as his companion.
In terms of how much lust enters the equation, the Creator is a guy after all. He never grew up enough to have a mature relationship, but he was probably old enough to have some dirty thoughts.
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Let me post this as well. I was kind of waiting for someone to discover this, but what the heck.
The song that you hear throughout the game, Eric's mother's song that you end up singing to him in the sunken city and the song that becomes the Verse, actually has an internal name. Its called "Anima".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_%28Jung%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_%28Jung%29)
The feminine inner personality, as present in the unconscious of the male, is anima. It is in contrast to the animus, which represents masculine characteristics in the female. It can be identified as all of the unconscious feminine psychological qualities that a male possesses. In a film interview, Jung was not clear if the anima/animus archetype was totally unconscious, calling it "a little bit conscious"[citation needed] and unconscious. In the interview, he gave an example of a man who falls head over heels in love, then later in life regrets his blind choice as he finds that he has married his own anima–the unconscious idea of the feminine in his mind, rather than the woman herself. The anima is usually an aggregate of a man's mother but may also incorporate aspects of sisters, aunts, and teachers.
Essentially the Creator is trying to make his Anima manifest.
Also interesting to check out in that article is "Levels of anima development". It kind lines up with the game in interesting ways. (I discovered this after the game was nearly done, which kinda blew my mind!)
The fourth and final phase of anima development is Sophia, as previously mentioned for the Greek word for wisdom. Proper union and harmony now has taken place which allows females to posses combinations of virtuous and earthly qualities. The most important aspect of this final level is that, as the personification "Wisdom" suggests, the anima is now developed enough that no single object can fully and permanently contain the images related to the anima. As this point as well, this now esoterically understood feminine principle has the potential to be possessed by any person, male or female, although it is not necessarily possessed by any.
Way before I knew any of this, back at the beginning of the game when were trying to pick an interesting name for the main character, we stumbled across a page of Indian names. We picked "Naija", which meant "daughter of wisdom".
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Woah :o
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The anima is one of the most significant autonomous complexes of all. It manifests itself by appearing as figures in dreams as well as by influencing a man's interactions with women and his attitudes toward them. Jung said that confronting one's shadow self is an "apprentice-piece", while confronting one's anima is the masterpiece.
Jung viewed the anima process as being one of the sources of creative ability.
!
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The anima is one of the most significant autonomous complexes of all. It manifests itself by appearing as figures in dreams as well as by influencing a man's interactions with women and his attitudes toward them. Jung said that confronting one's shadow self is an "apprentice-piece", while confronting one's anima is the masterpiece.
Jung viewed the anima process as being one of the sources of creative ability.
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Damn interesting. But it seems we all have those, and the more artistic you are, the more you're have to confront with anima... Anima has also many convergences with persona.
Alec, are you trying to illustrate something? :P
I even didn't noticed that Naija's name comes from indian culture, but it's sweet anyways :o
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Naija is sanskrit, damn. didnt notice it before.
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Well damn, there's way more behind it then I thought. I knew how the creator's mind was thinking and stuff, but this just blew my mind. Alec, once again great job, this once again proves how awesome this game is and how much I like it.
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Alec, if you ever did a fancy print edition, this is the stuff I'd pay extra for - like a little booklet of notes and background (and sketches!).
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Alec, if you ever did a fancy print edition, this is the stuff I'd pay extra for - like a little booklet of notes and background (and sketches!).
Yeah, something like this was used in Witcher special edition version, where you had also a t-shirt, medallion and a beautiful book full of artworks (something like 320!). It would be good to make stuff like this for the Aquaria ;)
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Alec, the two of you have created a damn smart piece of interactive art, intelligent, personal and interpretatative. You did just the thing that makes Psychonauts the *best game ever*, i.e. you used level (world) design to depict an internal conflict of it's creator's psyche, and did that quite well. So kudos for being intelligent and enthralling.
So one thing bothers me even more: The hidden ending with Mia is weak and derivative. Basically, it's "Join me, and we shall rule the galaxy as father and son!" There is nothing secretive about it, it's, well, vulgarly explicit and direct, to say nothing of the cliché (nevermind those, every story has been told already).
The final inward spiral into ultimate darkness was meanignful and functional, if cryptic. The added scene with Mia slaughters the mistery and obscures Naija's own role in her fall. Also, Mia's personality has no style, no drama, if I may, she's just a cheap bitch, there's no pull in her. If she didn't have mind manipulating powers, she would merely be your average annoying carreerist female. This unveiled image of Mia is highly incongruent with The Creator's mystic vision of perfection (howevr misfigured) and her former enigmatic representation.
The last confrontation was a major dissapointment, all the more since everything else was great.
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It makes perfect sense to me, but that might be because I already know where the story would go after that.
You're right. Mia is the careerist. Eric idolized her, and thought of her as "perfect", but she was unattainable for him. She wants more, and thinks she can do better.
And I understand that all too well. ;)
I actually find her pretty sympathetic. The secret locations that you find are the places that she raised Naija. The Creator was pursuing her the whole time. I think while she seems "evil" in the context of the ending and Naija's story, the continuing story would go more in depth into why she did what she did and what her plan is.
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Someone did a read of the game saying it was like all anti-theology. (because of the slaying of "God") I think its debatable whether or not "the creator" was ever a god, or just being with rare powers.
Naija, throughout the game, is becoming more and more of a weapon as she gains more abilities, finds it easier to kill, finds excuses for anger. Its interesting that after rescuing Li, she's free to leave The Body, but inevitably the player will end up going to the final area and killing the Creator.
Was that a good thing or not? Its hard to say really.
The Creator is either two characters, or one bipolar character. The little boy combined with the ancient power. (almost like what it feels like in the game industry to work for a big publisher, in a way) Is the boy innocent? He's creating and destroying life on a whim, which Naija deems to be "unnatural". Is she right?
Much like real life, there could be another god outside of that equation, or just a natural order. One of the themes of the game is pitting those ideas against each other.
The Creator generally represents some kind of desire to create and sustain order based on one entity's plan, as well as masculinity. The women in the game tend to represent unpredictable, uncontrollable nature. (key example: the forest area and "forest goddess" - based on the creator's girlfriend that you see a hint of in the abyss)
The key with Eric is that he idolized the women in his life, and they ended up leaving him in one painful way or another. (his mother was killed, his girlfriend probably thought he was too weird or too boring)
As being simultaneously a child and a "god", he was in constant internal debate with himself. It was a tortured existence for him, punctuated by sparse moments of joy found in creating beautiful things. This is represented by the beings he left behind, the Erulians being an extension of his wishing for a time of peace and beauty, and the Krotites being part of his anger towards himself and his childish feelings of what would be entertaining. As the Aquarian text in those areas indicates, the Krotites wiped out the Erulians.
Naija stares into the abyss in a similar way, and in a way that partially mirrors what Mia went through. Mia is what Naija could become, if she hadn't found Li. (although it remains an open question of how much Naija was committed to Li, she expresses some doubts in the ending text) Now that Li and her child are removed from the equation, it remains to be seen how that would play out.
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Another good question would be, what if Naija had found a female companion? Or some form of mentor? Something other than a love interest. Really her attraction to Li springs from loneliness more than anything else. Not a great basis for a relationship at all if I do say so. I don't think the game is anti-theology, although I tend to lean that way myself so I might be biased. I never thought of the "creator" as God anyway. And what's more, I think there are a lot more experiences in Mia's life that led her to be such a...well a psychopath. Naija has a love of exploration, a love that she was able to fully realize because unlike Mia she was NOT being hunted day and night by an overbearing oppressive and obsessed child with god-like power. Sure Naija may have been lonely, but from what we've seen of her I doubt she would turn into Mia from sheer loneliness.
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Another good question would be, what if Naija had found a female companion? Or some form of mentor? Something other than a love interest. Really her attraction to Li springs from loneliness more than anything else. Not a great basis for a relationship at all if I do say so.
Exactly.
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I'm just waiting for the next episode/game and then I will or might give my judgement... hint hint! nudge nudge! Do you have even a vague idea of when it will be finished and ready for us Alex?
By the way to me she seems more like a child exploring her abilities and all those creatures she kills are treated as toys, so she just hasn't grown up yet that's all. :D
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I felt like the child ghost and the creator were two different incarnations of the same spirit... with the child ghost being the spirit of his childhood and humanity and the creator being what that person became. I feel like the ghost child likes Naija and wants to help her while the creator is incredibly possessive and wants her to love him - it's like two halves of the same person, one who can love others and one who can only love his- or her- self. I just did the Sunken City and a chunk of the Body (freed Li) so the image of the ghost child is really fresh in my memory. Perhaps Li is in a bubble because the ghost is protecting it from the rest of the Body, although unable to do more than that?
I was wondering why the mother and father ghosts became monsters in the Sunken City.... some kind of reflection of the creator's anger at them for leaving him? Anger at the dead is supposed to be one of the reactions of people in mourning. The whole Sunken City ending also kinda reflects what happens in the bigger scheme of things.
Also, why the Erulian, Krotite Warrior, Prince of Mithalas, and Nature Spirit at the end as the spirits Naija must find to free Li? Are these the ones whom she shares the most attributes? Maybe these are the creator's favorites... although they didn't live up to Mia/Naija. Who's Naija's father? He's a Mithalan, right? The Prince even. So that would explain him. The Fish Form didn't have a god, it seemed to be an actual gift from the verse itself, and the Spirit Form was a reward for killing spirits in Mithalas Cathedral... Dual Form doesn't have a god either, so that just leaves the Sun Form in terms of other peoples that could have been used for the spirits. Of course, the choice of these spirits could also reflect the relative power of them. I love the Erulians.... Dual Form reminds me of them a lot in some ways. Were they the first civilization?
Sorry for all the rambling, those are just my thoughts on a few of the posts I read here.... hope they aren't repeats. Happy playing ;)
Edit: I just re-read the entire thread, and I see some of this post is repetitive, but I"ll leave it. Other thoughts: I like the idea of the Mithalan princess marrying Naija and Li's son. I've got a soft spot for the Mithalans, although I think Mithala the god is my favorite even above them. And I agree about Mia running around and hiding while trying to raise Naija... I still wonder about the father of Naija or if Mia just asexualy reproduced. Some plants and animals do that, so maybe that's part of Mia's abilities... and maybe even Naija's. Also, someone mentioned the blue crystals and Naija's memories in them - there's only one problem with that. If Naija is there in the crystal herself, wouldn't using the blue crystal free her spirit like it did with the others? Which would negate the boy/man at the end having to go save Naija.... So, perhaps Naija saved her memories in the red crystals, but when she was taken by Mia, they turned blue? Or maybe the blue crystals contain her memories, because whenever she used the Spirit form, they saved her memories at the time and the red crystals are not important to the retrieval of her memories by her son. Like the blue crystals would be copies of her spirit itself? Seeing as how the other times Naija interacts with a blue crystal (besides Spirit Form that is) there are spirits held in the crystal, that could be a possibility. I dunno, it'd be interesting to see. Also, in the sequel, there's always the possibility that Naija is dead... and that it was her body/spirit in the crystal. If Naija didn't do as Mia wanted, Mia could have destroyed her just as the creator destroyed his creations. I certainly hope that's not the case, but it is possible. Naija's son could be going to get revenge.... or he could be a part of Mia's plan as well - she could have taken Naija, "modified" her, and then freed her to do her bidding all unknowing... again. And this modification could have been part of why she had her son. Or, she could have escaped Mia and then had the son, and been recaptured. It's been long enough since I beat Aquaria that I don't remember if she had the son before Mia caught her in the end or not.... so if she had the son first, then most of what I just said is not possible... XD.
Anyway, happy playing ;)
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Some interesting thoughts here. 8)
Wow this thread got long! ::)
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We saw the son as a baby before she was captured by Mia so yes, she had it before. But you didn't consider that the discovery of Naija in a blue crystal could be the END of the story. Her son already heard her tale from the red crystals, and now he's found her trapped in the blue one. Nobody said that was the beginning of his journey, or even the beginning of the next game.
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Oooh, good thought Glamador! The way time is maleable in this world makes that such a possibility. Heh, I just had a kinda cheesy thought there: Time Form! >.> But doesn't the Spirit Form do stuff that a Time Form would do already? In some ways anyway.... unless you could turn back time, and watch as projectiles floated backwards and monsters "unhit" you.... *Drowns in cheese*
Edit: Yeah, I beat the game again today, and I almost made a post to say I was wrong about the baby birth timing thing... I really like the idea of a dual story line (from the points of view of Naija's boy and the young mer gal that was shown sleeping in the ending), although I dont' know that Alec or Derek has said anything about it. But it's nice to just think about all the possibilities for the potential stories ;).
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I'm kinda worried about posting here, (I don't want to ruin too much about the sequel, and its interesting to hear all the different interpretations) but I want to clear up a couple of things.
The world of Aquaria is 3D, (i.e. if it was a real place you could visit, it would have a Z axis) but it is presented in the game as 2D. I think this is leading to some of the confusion.
(http://bit-blot.com/scrap/openspace.png)
A couple quotes of interest:
"Li was particularly excited by these ruins...
...it was if he recognized them.
They did not look like the work of Aquarians.
I suspected that they were from beyond the Veil.
Perhaps Li's world was destroyed as well..."
"Perhaps". This is only Naija's assumption, its not explained in the game where Li is actually from. (although we can guess it was either the city seen at the beginning, or a similar one; since there don't seem to be any other living humans in the waters) The only human Naija knows at this point is Li, but she also has no knowledge of anything that exists outside of the waters. Naija picks up that Li is lonely and searching for something, but she doesn't know why. Derek and I do, but I don't think we'll get into that until the sequel.
"There are much greater worlds above ripe for the taking." - Mia
:o
Okay...just let me breathe in a little first. So does this mean we will have a sequel? I just finished playing Aquaria for the first time and got the secret ending, but my heart sank as we saw Naija spirited away by her mother. Then the to be continued sign appeared. Naturally, after scouring the threads for hours at a time i came upon this little gem of a quote.
I have to know...is a sequel in the works? Could you give us a timetable? Heck even if i heard that it would be done in 2020 I'd at least have a little closure...and a reason to keep coming back to the site for updates.
I probably sound annoying asking like this, but I just feel like I have to know. Aquaria is one of the greatest games of all times, easily worth twice the thirty dollar price tag...A sequel to it would be beyond awesome!!! Besides I think a little more characterization and closure would do us all some good.
Aquaria is a game that is truly one of the greatest of all times. I'm going to be keeping my eyes to the forum for signs of a sequel. Fellow players, I hope you'll pray with me.
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There will be a sequel (at least it is planned), but atm is Bit Blot working on improving Aquaria AND making another (unrelated) game. Right, Alec?
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There will be a sequel (at least it is planned), but atm is Bit Blot working on improving Aquaria AND making another (unrelated) game. Right, Alec?
Yeah, I'm working on those. Derek is doing his own side projects now.
I have plans for two other Aquaria games that I'd love to do, but I wouldn't want to do them without Derek's involvement - in some form.
We'll have to see what happens!
In the meantime, working on something new will be a lot of fun... and it'll be with a somewhat different team too. :)
ALSO:
Glad to hear you enjoyed the game, Nightmareshadow! ;D
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At least plans for an Aquaria sequel are being made...still it could take years for it to get through the pipeline...
Well, I'll wait, as long as it takes...still I gotta wonder.
If an Aquaria sequel does make it through (Fingers Crossed) then would the voice actors be the same?
Does Li and Naija's son have a name yet?
What happened to the rest of the characters after the secret ending?
Just some questions I'm brooding on.
Still, if the Bit Blot team is listening (And I know they are), the best thing you can do for an Aquaria sequel is to keep it in 2-d.
Personal Preference I know, but too many people underestimate the power of 2-d. Aquaria is a masterpiece in 2-d, as are several other great games, like Odin Sphere and Grim Grimoire. I'm just hoping for the future.
Until Aquaria 2 is done, I'll be waiting , and keeping my ear to the forums :)
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I don't fear that they abandon 2D. I'm pretty sure it is a lot more difficult to create this special athmosphere in 3D.
Naijas son is called Lucien.
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I don't fear that they abandon 2D. I'm pretty sure it is a lot more difficult to create this special athmosphere in 3D.
Naijas son is called Lucien.
That would be great Xiagan, I played the first Broken Sword games and when they made it 3D for the last one it was ruined :(
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I don't fear that they abandon 2D. I'm pretty sure it is a lot more difficult to create this special athmosphere in 3D.
Naijas son is called Lucien.
Lucien?
Cool. Kinda Reminds me of Valkyrie Profile.
Anyway, how'd you find out about his name?
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I think it was mentioned somewhere, but a huge give-away was that the song, which plays when you see him is called "Lucien". ;)
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I think it was mentioned somewhere, but a huge give-away was that the song, which plays when you see him is called "Lucien". ;)
If you look in the 'gfx' folder in the resources folder, you'll find all the artwork. In the directory called 'lucien' are the sprites for Naija's grown child. As well, sprites for the chick with black hair from that same ending sequence are under the directory 'luciengf'.
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"Li was particularly excited by these ruins...
...it was if he recognized them.
They did not look like the work of Aquarians.
I suspected that they were from beyond the Veil.
Perhaps Li's world was destroyed as well..."
"Perhaps". This is only Naija's assumption, its not explained in the game where Li is actually from. (although we can guess it was either the city seen at the beginning, or a similar one; since there don't seem to be any other living humans in the waters) The only human Naija knows at this point is Li, but she also has no knowledge of anything that exists outside of the waters. Naija picks up that Li is lonely and searching for something, but she doesn't know why. Derek and I do, but I don't think we'll get into that until the sequel.
"There are much greater worlds above ripe for the taking." - Mia
:o
This wasn't exactly clear to me... Is Naija able to communicate verbally with Li? He appears to be a deaf-mute. This was either to leave his personality to the gamer's imagination, or he really is a deaf-mute.
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What about that kid in the intro? Is he the Najia and Li's kid?
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What about that kid in the intro? Is he the Najia and Li's kid?
The kid in the intro is Eric before he was possessed by the demon/evil spirit that transformed him into the creator. The city off which he falls is the Sunken City below the Abyss.
This wasn't exactly clear to me... Is Naija able to communicate verbally with Li? He appears to be a deaf-mute. This was either to leave his personality to the gamer's imagination, or he really is a deaf-mute.
I think the former is correct, as per Gordon Freeman in Half-Life. [Ouch, maybe a controversial comparison, but the only one I know ::) ] You could think of him as the strong, silent type. ;)
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Harsh. Can u post a screenshot of the creator, i wanna see what he looks like?
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I think the former is correct, as per Gordon Freeman in Half-Life. [Ouch, maybe a controversial comparison, but the only one I know ::) ] You could think of him as the strong, silent type. ;)
I think artistically, that would make more sense, but with Naija's monologue pondering the relationship between Li and the ruins of the Sunken City lead me to believe that Naija and Li's communication is of the non-verbal kind.
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Harsh. Can u post a screenshot of the creator, i wanna see what he looks like?
Man this is annoying. I saw a screenshot of the Creator a week ago and thought nothing of it, and now I can't find it to give it to you! :D
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I think it was mentioned somewhere, but a huge give-away was that the song, which plays when you see him is called "Lucien". ;)
If you look in the 'gfx' folder in the resources folder, you'll find all the artwork. In the directory called 'lucien' are the sprites for Naija's grown child. As well, sprites for the chick with black hair from that same ending sequence are under the directory 'luciengf'.
Luciengf as in Lucien's Girlfriend? Hmh.
Also, hi! This is my first post.
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Hi paperbagboy welcome to Bit Blot :D
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Awesome, I completed the main story, but I have no doubt there are still some secrets I can find in Aquaria. Starting by decrypting the texts and those 5 treasures that I am missing...
I must admit the first time I saw the ending (with the 3 memories), it was a lot of informations to take in at once and, thankfuly, I found this thread (and defeated the boss again to listen to the ending again after reading it!) to make most of the pieces of the puzzle connect with the others. It's a bit annoying when you are shown too much elements that you don't understand, we're all curious heh? ;)
So there has been a lot of theories and ideas tossed around in this thread about how we should interpret the ending. Alec has kindly helped by giving a few hints to set us on the right direction and I guess it must have been fun for him and Derek to read what we understood of the story and the speculations for what might be following next! At this point I believe that the sunken city was the flying one, that the whole story we played was lived by Naija and that it is her son discovering her past from one of the blue crystal after she disappeared (see ending and introduction when you start a new game). Well, he discovers her past until the memories are "locked" by Mia.
It seems to me the girl we see at the end is the princess of Mithalas. Her skin is very similar to the prince and her ears match with that race. She has black hairs and seems to be wearing a diadem just like her portrait in her room. She also has a necklace very similar to the one Naija's son wears! But that might just be a coincidence.
Great game overall. I really enjoyed drifting in Eric/the creator's canvas!
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It seems to me the girl we see at the end is the princess of Mithalas. Her skin is very similar to the prince and her ears match with that race. She has black hairs and seems to be wearing a diadem just like her portrait in her room. She also has a necklace very similar to the one Naija's son wears! But that might just be a coincidence.
The girl is actually Lucien's girlfriend. :)
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Since this seems to be where all the plot discussion is at, I thought I'd throw this out there...
If you go into the \scripts\entities subfolder in your Aquaria folder, there are script files for "childdrask", "childsharan", and "childteira" with dialogue in them. The dialogue isn't found anywhere in the game itself, and what's especially interesting is that it's coded in the form of dialogue trees. As far as I know, this hasn't been mentioned on these forums before, though I haven't searched thoroughly enough to be sure.
Rather than copy the code verbatim, I'll try and format to how it was supposed to look in-game. Bolded text seems to be the options you can select, followed by the responses to each.
DRASK
...
What are you staring at?
Vedha
Vedha scares me.
Mithalas
Please don't ask me about Mithalas...
West Passage
Are you going to try and go there, Naija? But... you were warned... by Vedha...
One day, I hope that I'll be as brave as you!
Song Crystal
Someone spoke to you from inside a Crystal? This means that something more than memory is stored there...
Think about it... all that power...
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SHARAN
Naija, I need your help. What's the capital of Aquaria?
Mithalas
Oh! Of course, how could I forget. Mithalas, under the rule of the great Kairam.
Don't Know
I know I'll just fail my next test...
Can I help you, Naija?
Mithalas
I can't wait to visit Mithalas!
Kairam
Kairam is the greatest ruler in all of Aquarian history!
Drask
Drask is the first boy to ever make it to Vedha's classes. Isn't it funny?
Vedha
Vedha said I'm improving in my studies. Maybe some day I can sing like you, Naija!
Old Father
The Old Father is the Creator of all of Aquaria, and the Mithalans believe that he lives in their city.
West Passage
You'd better not go running off to a forbidden area. I don't think Vedha would be very pleased. Just the other day, she scolded me for exploring the deep cave.
Deep Cave
I found a cave, deep below this one. I only had a chance to have a peak before Vedha found me.
From what I could tell, it looked like some long forgotten ruins. I wish I could explore, but now I'm grounded.
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TEIRA
Vedha's been looking for you!
Where did you swim off to?
Oh... nowhere special...
Hmph. I can't wait until we get to visit Mithalas. THAT will be exciting.
What do you want, Naija?
Mithalas
You really haven't been paying attention in class, have you?
Mithalas is the crown jewel of Aquaria. The great Mer City!
*tsk* I really don't know why Vedha keeps you around...
Vehja
You'd best do exactly what Vedha says, Naija. She is our teacher after all.
Drask
Drask? He shouldn't even be here. Whoever heard of a boy Siren?
Old Father
I know that the Old Father has a plan for me... and for all of us. You'd be wise to put your faith in Him.
I have my own thoughts on these, but I'll let them speak for themselves and see what everyone else thinks. It'd be nice to hear from Alec whether these fit into the game's canon or were just early development ideas that were changed or scrapped.
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Hmm. Perhaps there was something to that theory about the crystals being more significant than the game lets on..
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Whoah, looks like Aquaria had a whole different story, and maybe even an RPG element?
I wonder if these were actually parts of the main story or parts of maybe... like, the flashbacks.
But looking at that she talked at the crystal, it seems this is supposed to go with the main plot.
Maybe Naija was supposed to actually endure the fall of Mithalas?
I dunno, I'm thinking of a lot of theories, maybe Alec just put this in to confuse us. xD
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The theory about Aquaria once being a more RPG-like game dealing with the time of Mithalas and younger characters is accurate.
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Looks like TheBear's mod is more of a prequel than I realized. I can't wait. :)
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Just finished the game.
The biggest thing that I noticed was that the sunken city had a statue identical to the one in the intro, so I think that they are the same city. My sister wants to point out that many of the statues were of the Creator except for the one of the Mithalan prince. She also kept a running translation of every rune in the game, finding the rainbow soup that way. (She found the translations on the forums.) I have some very interesting ones right here:I have angered the Creator. The Erulian histories are true. For many years we worshipped sun. We believed in reason. The pain is becoming unbearable. The transformation is almost done. Kill me and kill our creator.
Does absolution lie above the waves?
I'm looking that up now. –noun
1. act of absolving; a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.
2. state of being absolved.
3. Roman Catholic Theology.
a. a remission of sin or of the punishment for sin, made by a priest in the sacrament of penance on the ground of authority received from Christ.
b. the formula declaring such remission.
4. Protestant Theology. a declaration or assurance of divine forgiveness to penitent believers, made after confession of sins.
Moving on to gameplay.
One gripe I always have about this sort of game is that YOU ALWAYS FIND THE EXACT TOOL THAT YOU WILL NEED IN THE NEXT AREA. Sorry about that. It can't be avoided, but in reality, its silly. The final boss was actually very easy. This may have had something to do with the five Arcane Poultices that my sister and I had collected/made. It also may have been the seven tasty rolls and six tasty cakes, as well as eight buttery sea loaves and two healing poultices. You may laugh at our obsessive compulsiveness now. The hardest boss was the one guarding the jelly suit. IhateitIhateitIhateitIhateitIhateitIhateit and I NEVER want to see it again.
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"Does absolution lie above the waves?"
Check Xiagan's signature. Either way, nice find.
Second, the gameplay is pretty free actually, you have the choice when you go to the open waters to go to the Kelp forest, Mithalas, or the abyss, however, you don't come very far in there.
At least it isn't as horrible as the Metroid games where you usually have one path, a path that is set for you by a series of very coincidental events. :p
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At least it isn't as horrible as the Metroid games where you usually have one path, a path that is set for you by a series of very coincidental events. :p
We can't have been playing the same Metroid games, then.
Or do you just not enjoy bending the rules as much as I do?
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Okay, not ALL Metroid games have been like that, but a lot of them have.
And if you mean bending the rules by using OR bugs, OR any cheat device like Gameshark and Action Replay, then no, I don't.
Either way, to make my point get across, I meant that usually you get one path that'll close up behind you, making you do anything in that area until you have the required powerup to continue. This only happened once in Aquaria and even then you didn't have to backtrack.
And of course the part where you have nothing left to do and then suddenly some boss comes along and opens up a road where you'll have to go through and etc... etc...
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Well, goodness knows I only mess around with RAM or ROM manipulation for experimental purposes, but as for glitches.. whether the developers intended them or not, they are a part of the game.
Personally, I couldn't even tell you how to play Metroid Prime without scandashing to get the Space Jump first, anymore, and I know a lot of Super Metroid players who don't remember how to not mockball (I'm not quite there yet, if only because it still takes me about a dozen tries to get it to work).
If a developer is able to and chooses to remove glitches in a later update or sequel, that's fine, of course, but sometimes they won't (or in the case of older games, can't).
Fighting games in particular wouldn't be what they are today if someone hadn't found an exploit in Street Fighter II that allowed them to shorten certain attack animations and thereby get in even more attacks (a concept we now know as "combos", which has expanded far beyond the scope of its originating genre).
Other examples of glitches that became so ubiquitous that they were deliberately incorporated or left alone in later games and updates include the Roman Cancel from Guilty Gear (now a staple of the series, which even added a False Roman Cancel just to throw other players off) and Mutalisk Stacking in StarCraft (rather than find a way to prevent players from doing it, Brood War added a selection of new units specifically designed to counter the technique).
And then, of course, we have things like Wavedashing which was deliberately left out of Brawl.
But my point is that glitch abuse in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing, least of all in single-player games like the bulk of the Metroid franchise.
I will, however, agree that when an exploit in a competitive multiplayer game creates a serious imbalance, then it should be fixed as soon as possible.
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Naija's mother removes Naija's consciousness and makes her sleep, her memories erased once again. Li, waiting with the baby, sees Naija is either lost, or has lost all her memories of him and their baby.
Heart-broken, Li leaves the lands of Aquaria with their baby, to his family and home lands to raise the child.
Naija wakes up in Aquaria, confused and all her memories are gone. Desperately she attempts on the mission to find her identity and her family.
After all, her mother did say "Try again."
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Uhm, I believe the title screen of Aquaria, which has Naija in a crystal, is the 'end' of the story.
I don't think a perfect being like Mia would just let her roam again to ONCE again find her lost memories.
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Uhm, I believe the title screen of Aquaria, which has Naija in a crystal, is the 'end' of the story.
I don't think a perfect being like Mia would just let her roam again to ONCE again find her lost memories.
And she does mention a thing or two above the land above. Conquest?
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Heck, maybe she's in the crystal to get her memories altered again, this time to fight on Mia's side, and that you as son need to go through Mia's (land)forces to get Naija back to her normal senses. *gasp* =O
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I like these theories...
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Yeah, thing is, I usually name stuff that's already been used, so don't listen to me. >.>
None the less, is this making you rethink what story you had already so far? :D
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The fact that Naija is afraid of her own feelings at some point (when she "likes" the destruction she is causing) and how she wonders about being consumed and nearly IS when Li gets taken away (twice), there is clearly some indication that she too can be "remade" if her creator (Mia) wishes it. And the last ending, the one where Mia gets control over Naija again...It seems to point in that direction.
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Well, sorry for resurrecting an old, dead thread, but...
At the very end, the Creator/Eric show a couple of images of women he was trying to make in the image of his mother/lover. I recognize the Druniad goddess, but there were two others that look like Mithalans, one very Mithalan and one that was covered in lots of clothing that I don't quite recall. Anybody have a clue on those?
Also, after reading this thread, I went and peered at the opening screen, and it does look a bit like Naija is wearing the outfit she's wearing at the very end of the game, in the epilogue. A little bit intriguing, to say the least.