Bit Blot Forum
Aquaria => General => Topic started by: Aristobulus on October 16, 2010, 07:48:16 am
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It just struck me, not too long ago, that I have no idea if Naija has scales like a fish or flesh like a dolphin. Looking up art doesn't really clear up the issue either, and I've even seen some fanart that has scales so clearly people just go with whatever...
Any thoughts? Do we have any way to actually KNOW or is it just a guess?
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an interesting notion as she definitely has Webbed feet. Hm. Though honestly i would say skin, otherwise wouldn't
lucien look more fish like? eh heh heh. I forget not everyone has trounced Creator. (SPOILER) so sorry. hence me not explaining.
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Bishop puts out a good point, she DOES have webbed feet.
I would've thought she had rubbery skin like a dolphin, but that wouldn't fit with the webbed-ness.
I'd guess normal skin when thinking about it, I mean she DID do stuff with Li and unless he's into some freaky stuff... xD
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Doesn't normal skin have issues with being underwater so long, though? also, is there some reason having webbed feet and such prevents her from having scales on other parts of her body?
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What about the skin of seals or any other underwater creature has that's not a fish.
And well, I know quite some amphibians and lizards have webbed feet and stuff, but I'm not sure.
If Naija would have had scales, wouldn't she be a bit more shiny?
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I'm not sure about other creatures, but don't seals and such spend a lot of time above water, too?
The only thing I can really comment on is that it's not necessarily the case that scales would mean she'd have to be rendered shiny - it's just artistic liberty there, that she could have scales and not be rendered shiny.
The thing is the sprite is not specifically detailed enough to make a call one way or the other, it doesn't make it impossible that she has scales. The thing about scales is that rendering them is a detail so exact that it can be jarring to an otherwise simple graphical style - similar to gills that were on earlier versions of concept art. It is probably safe to assume that Naija has gills, but they aren't displayed because it wouldn't mesh well with the graphical style of the sprite and the game. Scales are probably similar.
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Wow alpha, here I am kissing yers again. XP I really am inclined towards skin at least in her normal form, even beast form im more inclined towards skin. Otherwise her characteristic shoulder freckles would have been much more obvious, larger perhaps as such markings would match many other fish and species. Dolphin like skin seems likely but a (spoiler warning) unlikely one. Dolphins can't be out of water for too long without drying out. Lucien definitely left the water with little intention of returning. Hence a seal like skin makes more sense. Besides, the shape shifting abilities would make Naija much more akin to selkies.
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Referring to Lucien isn't as strong of an argument as you might think, because anything he gains like the ability to leave the water for a while could just as easily be said that it's a trait he got from Li, and is not something Naija has to be able to do.
I mean, Lucien isn't as fullblooded fishperson as Naija is.
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However Li himself appears to have lost the ability to do so, never following Naija to the surface after their kiss :P
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Merely gameplay limitations, I wouldn't take that he doesn't follow you if you jump out of the water too much to heart.
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though you must admit his fascination does distract him often enough. he rarely finds his way to naija let alone the surface.
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an interesting notion as she definitely has Webbed feet.
Hm. Though honestly i would say skin, otherwise wouldn't lucien look more fish like? eh heh heh.
I forget not everyone has trounced Creator. (SPOILER) so sorry. hence me not explaining.
Thanks,,
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I've wondered that too. Long before I played Aquaria I was trying to write a story with a semi-aquatic race, and couldn't decide whether their webbed feet should have scales. Anyways, I don't think Naija has scales, but it's not really specified one way or another.
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If you look at the art on the soundtrack its pretty photorealistic, and not a scale to be found. I'd say its pretty likely that she has skin
http://infiniteammo.bigcartel.com/product/aquaria-original-soundtrack
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I don't think that webbed feet call for scales. Frogs don't have scales. Naija is pretty obviously a mammal, so I would think that she has dolphin-like skin. This doesn't have to be scientifically accurate, because with
magic the verse everything is possible!
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Frogs have those mucus skin things, Naija could probably have that too, but then she'd be all moist and sticky all the time...
Ahem. <_<
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Naija lives in the ocean, which was the canvas for The Creator. That means he didn't create it which means we can assume its made up of salt water. I could be wrong, but doesn't salt kill frogs and stuff since they absorb water through their skin? I don't think Naija could have that skin type.
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I always figured she'd have skin like a stingray-- soft, but sort of sandpapery. A bit like a wet, muscular mushroom. If you've ever been to one of those ray touch tanks at an aquarium, you know what I'm talking about. I also like the idea that she'd have a thin coating of mucous like a fish or a shark. Mostly to keep parasites off her, but also because I think it would be really, really funny if Li was constantly scrapping off slime due to her persistent affections. ^-^
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There are merfrogs ingame though. O_o
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The "friendly Southern sting ray" (Cayman islands; they come right up and nibble squid from your hand), has the most soft underbelly, soft as a baby's bottom...not sandpapery at all... I would prefer Naija be like that, and without mucus...I think Li would prefer that, too...
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Actually, it's too bad Naija doesn't have some sort of slimey coating. Being able to smother enemies in mucous would make a nifty attack. Especially if she could secrete it from her skin in massive quantities like a hag fish.
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I hadn't thought of the Mermogs as frogs for some reason, but you've got a point. Maybe they have scales though. Who knows (answer: Alec and Derek)?
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Doesn't normal skin have issues with being underwater so long, though? also, is there some reason having webbed feet and such prevents her from having scales on other parts of her body?
Well fantasy worlds don't always have to abide by real world scientific laws you know.
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There are merfrogs ingame though. O_o
I always assumed they were based on toadfish.
(http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/wildlife/fish/images/gulf-toadfish.jpg)
Some species look pretty similar (like the one above) and they're all technically pufferfish, or blowfish, which explains all the poison-based attacks.
"As with other fish of this family, the flesh is poisonous, due to tetrodotoxin, and eating the fish can have fatal consequences." [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_toadfish)
I'm pretty sure they also have barbs on various parts of their body which deliver the toxin aswell.
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I think its safe to assume she has magic flesh (AKA human flesh but it doesn't get all wrinkly :P).
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I think its safe to assume she has magic flesh (AKA human flesh but it doesn't get all wrinkly :P).
Exactly my thoughts as well. I would expect scales to glitter more than she does. But I'll go with the soft ray-skin too. And yes definently no mucus! That would totally take some of her beauty away.... :-\
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Huh right. We all do seem to forget that she's like 1/2 immortal, at least should be because Mia is "as" powerful as the fallen Creator. Which would make the fledgling boy 1/4 immortal or a lesser demigod. Someone mentioned Li using the flying machine earlier (a point that irritates a bit) and though I know its slightly pushing the envelope here, it would be Naija's Demi-God Son that took to the skies as his mother grew yet older in her unconscious state. Which spurs another question: If she has so strove to revoke true divinity as her mother preferred.... then did Mia simply merge with her? Something that would be good to know for my D&D Aquaria Campaign that I may have found new inspiration for. AHEM. (Yes Alec or Derek your voice in this matter would be ^_^ wonderfully admired)
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I think God is just leetspeak for "higher lifeform." In the game, "Gods" are contextually far more suited and magical a term that compliments the story, so that's my thoughts on them. I think the only true God is the Creator God. :)
The Gods were created as pretty much the pinnacle of the species they rule over. Mithalis seemed essentially to be a large Mithalan, Mother Nature was the most extreme manifestation of plant and animalistic hybrids, the Octopus Prime, Crab bosses and Jellyfish God, etc, were also just very large variants of the ordinary creatures. Some, like Mithalis, were only shown in different, grossly different and distorted forms after they were subjected to unnatural things, like Mithalis again, being chained and used to gain knowledge for immortality from Mithalan priests, etc. Even the Creator God himself was a child that was corrupted and distorted after years of loneliness and failure. It was only his merging with an ancient spirit after the attack on the Skyhome that gave him influence over the waters in the first place.
As for Mia's God status, well as said, I don't think the "Gods" were Gods as much as just higher/superior life-forms, but one thing is clear that Mia was created as the most equal creation to the CG. I think it's more the case her independent, self awareness and human-like intelligence being the element that allowed her to evolve more than just a simple beast like the others were based on, and hide herself and evade the CG to work her own agenda.
Naija I'd reckon is just a very powerful lifeform, and nothing more. She is however very different and unique from other Mithalans in that being born through Mia, she is able to fully manipulate the verse as she chooses, while the other Mithalans and creatures of Aquaria only have some limited powers. Naija seems to have the ability to use it entirely. This is what I get from the game at least -
As for the actual title question - I reckon that Naija has a combination of both. :]
Not all fish have scales - some have a soft skin, some (like sharks) have skin that is made of microscopic teeth - but ultimately, not all fish or aquatic creatures have only scales - and so I imagine Naija to have something similar. :D
Her official art shows that she has different textures and colours on her - and while they're not scales - or resemble them, I think it implies in my opinion that she's got a kind of skin/minor scale combination some underwater creatures have.
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Good grief, I'm not sure where the god talk came from, but I believe people here are completely having the wrong idea about the Thirteen and the Creator.
The Creator is a child, not a god. He fell to his death, was revived with magic that stayed with him and he created 13 creatures because he was lonely. But they turned on him, making him wrathful, insane and an egomaniac. As thus, with the power to destroy and make everything, he was referred to as a god. Just because that is so doesn't mean he's a god. I make and destroy some pretty mean origami, but that doesn't make me a god either.
Now just because he made 13 creatures that have power to create a lot as well doesn't make them gods either. The creator said so himself, that he could only remember the verse, never the chorus, and that it spread into everything he made, AKA, the magic everyone possesses.
Naija is no God either, nor a demigod. She simply has powers, stop making things divine. Durrr, *witty divine soup reference here*
As thus her child isn't a quarter god either, though he's sure to have powers.
As to the reference to Naija being smarter than other Mithalans; it's not because she's special, nor because she was Mia's daughter/creation, but because she was EDUCATED by Mia. She would've just been a feral creature otherwise. If you don't think that's so, go figure this, how does a creature that does not know language think?
Then to Mia being made as the creator's equal, this isn't so. The creator wanted Mia to be better than him, seeing she was made in the image of his mother. Now what child does not look up to his mother? Not with the obvious evidence of missing her so that he spread the verse of the song she sang through everything.
As for the skin, it could be possible she has a combination, but it's unlikely. The darker pattern doesn't prove anything either seeing orca's, whales and etc. have patterns as well.
That'll be all, feel free to prove me wrong on any of the subjects.
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The Creator is a child, not a god. He fell to his death, was revived with magic that stayed with him and he created 13 creatures because he was lonely.
I think God is just leetspeak for "higher lifeform." In the game, "Gods" are contextually far more suited and magical a term that compliments the story, so that's my thoughts on them.
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Even the Creator God himself was a child that was corrupted and distorted after years of loneliness and failure. It was only his merging with an ancient spirit after the attack on the Skyhome that gave him influence over the waters in the first place.
Don't think anywhere I stated anything other than what you said in your post, nor anything not stated in the game. :P
Naija is no God either, nor a demigod. She simply has powers, stop making things divine. Durrr, *witty divine soup reference here*
As thus her child isn't a quarter god either, though he's sure to have powers
Naija I'd reckon is just a very powerful lifeform, and nothing more.
derp.
As to the reference to Naija being smarter than other Mithalans; it's not because she's special, nor because she was Mia's daughter/creation, but because she was EDUCATED by Mia. She would've just been a feral creature otherwise. If you don't think that's so, go figure this, how does a creature that does not know language think?
No-one said anything about her being smarter. I did mention though her having a more profound connection to the verse, seeing that she was born of a creature that was created using the most potent uses of the Verse.
Furthermore, Mia wipes Naija's memory, so anything Naija was taught was forgotten. Naija lives as an otherwise feral creature afterwards until Mia starts to send her on her quest.
Also bear in mind that language is not coherent, concise words and complex structure. Some animals have highly developed language. Most have language that is based on the transition between instinct and reasoning. A thought is just expressing and processing any sort of information and deciding how to act. It's that blurry line between instinctual reaction and reasoning (on any scale) that becomes thought. And that communication is also language.
Ultimately; almost all animals are capable of thoughts on varying degrees in varying species.
Then to Mia being made as the creator's equal, this isn't so. The creator wanted Mia to be better than him, seeing she was made in the image of his mother. Now what child does not look up to his mother? Not with the obvious evidence of missing her so that he spread the verse of the song she sang through everything.
As for Mia's God status, well as said, I don't think the "Gods" were Gods as much as just higher/superior life-forms, but one thing is clear that Mia was created as the most equal creation to the CG. I think it's more the case her independent, self awareness and human-like intelligence being the element that allowed her to evolve more than just a simple beast like the others were based on, and hide herself and evade the CG to work her own agenda.
There was only the mention of equal purely because, being the creator himself, the CG can't make anything more than himself, bearing in mind he's not technically a god, nor magical in his own right either.
As for the skin, it could be possible she has a combination, but it's unlikely. The darker pattern doesn't prove anything either seeing orca's, whales and etc. have patterns as well.
But those are cetaceans, and cetaceans are mammals.
Naija does not breathe air.
Besides, as a fictional underwater creature, I think people should and are entitled to interpret and speculate as they wish here, especially when there is not defined truth.
That'll be all, feel free to prove me wrong on any of the subjects.
BIGASSPOST. :D
That said, I think you're looking too much into the semantics of it all. A lot of what I said (I haven't read all the posts here so can't speak for them) didn't actually dispute what you or the game said, and a lot of terminology was just personally used to interpret the same things.
The game is alot less precise and gives room for lots of interpretation on the same thing.
That said, I see no harm or wrong at all for other to interpret or hold the game and its concepts in their own, personalised way. It's absolutely a credit to the game if it's open enough for people to make their own assumptions and beliefs, it makes the game and story experiences that much more potent and personal for them. Which is a mark of an incredible game :)
EDIT: Aquaria: SERIOUS DISCUSSION! xD
Gezellig, he? :D
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Okay, for one, the first part of my posts weren't directed at you, but at the one before you, I was obviously supporting what you said as well, only in a more blunt way. Good job thinking you're the only one on this forum.
No-one said anything about her being smarter. I did mention though her having a more profound connection to the verse, seeing that she was born of a creature that was created using the most potent uses of the Verse.
Furthermore, Mia wipes Naija's memory, so anything Naija was taught was forgotten. Naija lives as an otherwise feral creature afterwards until Mia starts to send her on her quest.
Smart == More power, sorry you misunderstood that. Second to that, I'm 99% sure that she's smarter than most, if not all of the Mithalans.
Also got confused by the pretty long post, misplaced the intelligent of Mia with powerful, knowledge is power anyway.
Also bear in mind that language is not coherent, concise words and complex structure. Some animals have highly developed language. Most have language that is based on the transition between instinct and reasoning. A thought is just expressing and processing any sort of information and deciding how to act. It's that blurry line between instinctual reaction and reasoning (on any scale) that becomes thought. And that communication is also language.
Ultimately; almost all animals are capable of thoughts on varying degrees in varying species.
Language is indeed not coherent, thinking however is. Anything that's related to behavior is input and output. Dog pees against chair, gets hit on the nose, relates peeing against chair to pain, so next time he gets the URGE to do that, he'll relate to the pain and not do it. However, any creature that hasn't developed a speaking language, is most likely feral, or integrated into a culture that DOES have a coherent language, even then... when integrating into a culture that does have that, means you learn that language as much as your mind allows it.
But those are cetaceans, and cetaceans are mammals.
Naija does not breathe air.
Besides, as a fictional underwater creature, I think people should and are entitled to interpret and speculate as they wish here, especially when there is not defined truth.
I said it's unlikely, not that it's not so.
Second to that, rays also have patterns, so don't go all wiseass with species order on me. Almost all species have skin diversity which most of the time result in patterns, not scales AND skin.
This game gives a lot of open interpretation to what things might be or not be, but that's because not a lot of things are explained. This however doesn't mean people can go and pull random facts on the game like saying that Mia's at least just as powerful as the creator, seeing she obviously isn't or she would've confronted him herself with a slight bit of help from another of the 13. Inevitably, when you look at it, she defeated the Creator with the "help" of all 13 together.
Finally, keep your Dutch to yourself, stay in English. It'll only remind me of a certain ass that came prancing around here with fancy words while he didn't even buy the game anyway.
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I have no idea why you're acting with such a self entitled, condescending attitude.
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Exactly.
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I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Other than you potentially thought my original post also had a condescending air to it. In which case I would have simply stated there wasn't any intent, seeing as I hadn't read any posts here other than quickly skimming the latest one and otherwise addressed the post to no-one - just putting my general thoughts out on the current subject. And I'd have apologised to people generally if it [the tone] seemed otherwise.
I did get a little peeved at you, because your direct reply - seeing that it was also directed at others as you said, as well as me - was just downright pedantic to anyone reading. That was my interpretation of it. And there in my reply I also stated I was only speaking for myself, as I hadn't read all the others posts. Though I tried to make it as friendly as possible with the smilies and use of a random Dutch word for - well, the gezelligheid - and to show I wasn't being so srs bsns.
tl;dr I don't get why you're being assy - and if it was because you thought the tone of my post was off, all you'd have had todo was just ask me what's going on. Chances are I didn't realise if it was the case, and just explained, apologised to folks and tried to avoid posting in such a formal style from now on. Simple things really.
(http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/joker_i_dunno_lol.jpg?w=720&h=535)
EDIT:
So we're clear - if my original posts or any since had a certain tone about them - I genuinely didn't realise it when posting, and no offence or things like that were meant. So many amounts of sorries for that. :'(
If anyone has an issue with me at all in the future or whenever, by all means tell me directly.
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Not entirely sure how to make this post sound nice, so I'll just get to the point.
I was indeed slightly agitated that you only looked at my post and thought everything was aimed at you, which I made pretty clear afterwards.
Then there was the continuing of a subject that was generally weird, talking about gods, demigods and those things while it simply has to do with magics and powers which is why I responded with such a reply in the first place, going against the god thing and with what you tried to say, only in more... layman's terms and to the point.
Further I'm not sure how you just used the word pedantic, but I never understood that word exactly anyway. Also the smilies and Dutch word just made it sound like you were mocking.
Finally, I was cranky when I made that post. This makes me miss my attitude most of the time even when I don't mean it so, as thus my actual apologies for that.
P.S. <3 Joker
P.P.S. Why did you follow me on twitter?
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Well, if it helps clear things up, I didn't mean for the post to sound like I was taking everything you said personally - I was just replying from my standpoint generally about point you raised. I didn't think you were replying specifically to me, seeing that half the things you said didn't have much to do to what I posted originally. And my post replying was more me agreeing with you for the first half.
If I continued it, it was probably purely for the sake of discussing for the sake of discussing. The game's still pretty fresh in my mind after beating it a few days ago, so I'm all for chatting about minute details is all. You could have mentioned the design of the Jellyfish and I would have discussed in depth about that too! xD
Pedantic just means being condescending.
As for smilies and the Dutch words - I used the smilies specifically with the thought that my post might be read as rude without them. There's such a huge element that you don't get with text as you do vocally, so wanted to try and be as upfront as to my feelings, so the post wasn't seen as anything else. It definitely wasn't sarcasm, I can promise that - just kinda funny how the smilies had the complete opposite effect I used them for. And the Dutch word was used again, to try and be friendly. Moved to the Hague a few months ago, and thought it'd just be nice to call the convo/debate gezellig to show again that all was good, that my post wasn't meant to be seen as anything other than the meaning of gezellig.
No offense were intended. And the smilies and dutch words were there to genuinely try and make that clearer. :']
So maybe this was all a big case of being lost in translation? xD
As for twitter, knowing my BF's humour, he probably did it to try and be funny. :-\
EDIT:
In short; Sorry for not being clear and having a confusing series of posts - No harm done. :)
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Yeah, I can ramble on for ages and write long posts. And then later realise I can say it all in one sentence! xD
I'll try to make my future posts a lot clearer.
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Wait I just noticed, you changed your name? I'm fairly sure I was talking to SuperDecimal.
And all in all the discussion was more or less miscommunication and crankiness on my side. Btw, the jelly costume's hat always weirded me out.
Pedantic according to the online dictionary means that you're being all wiseass about a certain object you know a lot about, and that's one of many different meanings, so I dunno.
Smilies have the same effect as smiles in real life, they can either be sincere or be faking it. I thought it was the latter seeing Dutch was added, which seemed like an attempt to mock me, but now is obvious that it wasn't.
Also, boyfriend?
Anyway, I'm the same way. I have my clear-minded moods and the cloud-minded moods.
All in all, no biggie.
Oh and I'm seeing the new smilies as well now too, ohlawd. @_@ White anti aliasing pixels around them. :c