Bit Blot Forum
Aquaria => Modding => Topic started by: aerozol on May 28, 2010, 03:14:02 am
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Edit: I've just started doing my own stuff now, since everybody else is too I suppose.
So I'll just post things here as I do them... But if anybody wants a hand with something, still ask (:
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Hey guys, I just played through Aquaria in three days or so, after getting it with the Humble Indie Bundle.
It was awesome, really impressed!
I'm interested in helping out with graphics for anyone making a mod*
I'm inexperienced with illustration, but would still love to help out, and perhaps learn some stuff before making my own mod. Maybe.
You can see a bit of a portfolio here:
http://www.moddb.com/members/aerozol/blogs
I only just got my workbooks from uni, so it's got no illustrations on there, but I assure you, I'm not too bad ;)
I'll check this thread for a few days, after that please E-mail me.
Thanks,
Aerozol
*that I'm interested in
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I felt the same way when I finished Aquaria. It's a beautiful and inspiring game. It made me want to be creative again... and I cannot adequately express how amazing that truly is.
Definitely post some Aquaria themed examples of your art though. I came from a bit of design background as well, and this digital painting thing has me learning all over again. And I absolutely love it.
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I only wish Aquaria would inspire me to pick up my tablet pen and start trying to draw again. xD
Maybe not for a mod... but maybe as fanart? Someday. >_>
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Hi, Aerozol! I also got the Humble Indie Bundle, devoured Aquaria in about three days, and was inspired by it. Unlike you and Echolocating, I come from more of a programming background than an artistic one.
... which means that, like yourself, I'm looking for a collaborator from the other side of that equation. So, well... show me yours1 and I'll show you mine2! :P
1: "Yours", in this case, referring to some Aquaria-style artwork.
2: And "mine", similarly, would be the mod outline and mechanical stuff that I've been making.
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Ooh! Maybe you could make a mod together! How cute. ^.^
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How promising! :) I like where this thread is going...
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Hi, Aerozol! I also got the Humble Indie Bundle, devoured Aquaria in about three days, and was inspired by it. Unlike you and Echolocating, I come from more of a programming background than an artistic one.
... which means that, like yourself, I'm looking for a collaborator from the other side of that equation. So, well... show me yours1 and I'll show you mine2! :P
Hey Inyssius! Good to hear! ;)
I've been messing with files in Photoshop, and getting used to using a tablet again (it's been a long time...)
I had big issues with the 'halo' effect too, covered another thread. But I suppose I'll just DL Gimp at some point, since apparently that fixes the problem.
To practice I decided to make a 'ninja' naija:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/aerozol/skin_ninja1s.jpg) (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/aerozol/skin_ninja2s.jpg)
v0.1, v0.3
Which was a bit meh, but cool to get stuff working. I may fix/redo it at some point I suppose, or if people want it.
I also did a Pyramid Head costume:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/aerozol/skin_pyramid2s.jpg)
Same Photoshop white halo BS, and I drew the whole thing too small, and had to stretch it up. So it's not exactly quality either...
But man, it's pretty funny to watch it swim around and flip and stuff : D
I have some ideas for a mod, but I don't want to ruin the surprises.
In any case, all the ideas are 'visual' ideas, which I think will work great with Aquarias set-up.
(Not mimicking its actual art style though. I don't think I can improve the original, and neither can I draw that well)
Slightly off-topic, I also made icons for all the costumes/ mods I've downloaded, because it was looking messy..
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a238/aerozol/icon_example_beautys.jpg)
Mmm orderly
And btw I have experience creating things like Logos, Icons, and designing game Titles, so I thought some people may be interested in that. A nice looking presentation can do a lot for a mod.
Anyway, it's been fun!
p.s. your turn Inyssius ; )
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Looks awesome! :)
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Even though I must admit that your work is pretty damn awesome I'm not appreciating the whole selling yourself thing, there's only mods going on at the moment, nothing's planned for a sequel so I'm not sure why you're doing this much trouble.
Pyramid head costume is epic though. O:
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the whole selling yourself thing
It's because my day job is being a whore : (
No, I just like working with people. I'm also kind of used to doing it for school etc. Do you mean I posted too much? Or my tone or something?
If you think I'm sucking up to get a paid job or something though, woow, I didn't know I was that good!
Otherwise let me know what you meant
Really liked your costumes/ mods btw!
If you can spot anything obvious that I should be doing differently, help me out please!
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Even though I must admit that your work is pretty damn awesome I'm not appreciating the whole selling yourself thing, there's only mods going on at the moment, nothing's planned for a sequel so I'm not sure why you're doing this much trouble.
Eh wot?
Division of labor has played a significant role in the rise of human civilization, and still remains one of the most effective strategies in our arsenal. I'm not sure why you seem so bothered by it; the fact that people can accomplish more working as a team than they could on their own has been rather self-evident for some millennia now. One guy's good at making computers, one guy's good at running businesses, they team up and the businessman learns enough about computers to recognize and hire talented computer geeks to replace his original partner (who loses all his money and ends up in a commune somewhere in Southern California, admittedly, but the businessman ends up a millionaire). A shitty novelist meets a shitty theologian and together they tap into a market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Behind_%28series%29) so lucrative that even with their massive gaping flaws they end up richer than Croesus. An illustrator/web developer meets a programmer/composer, they make a fantastic game, release it to critical acclaim, and in the process learn enough about their shared trade that they're now heading two separate game development teams (sound familiar?).
And if you think that mere mods aren't worth that level of attention... well, frankly, you (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Fortress_Classic) haven't (http://www.blackmesasource.com/) the (http://www.hylobatidae.org/minerva/blogsheep.php?action=articleinfo&id=76) foggiest (http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Dr._Aeon_%28Developer%29) idea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Willits) what (http://x3tc.blogspot.com/2008/08/for-next-issue-of-x-universe-news-our.html) you're (http://planetunreal.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Articles.Detail&id=121) talking (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/213) about (http://www.moddb.com/games/battlefield-bad-company/features/from-modder-to-game-developer-diego-jimenez). If you develop a mod like you'd develop an actual game, odds are you'll end up developing actual games. Valve, Epic, id, Bioware... those names sound familiar? Well, guess what else they all have in common. They all hire a whole lot of people who got their start making mods.
Treat it like fan art, and other devoted fans might occasionally recognize your forum handle. Commit to it, and you'll get job offers.
In other words, Alpha, if you're interested in game development, you might consider following Aerozol's lead instead of being offended by it.
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Okay, in no way did I just deserve that whole preach you just put down, Inyssius. Not only did I know pretty much everything of that already, you're pulling shit in that have nothing to do with what I said at all.
And all your presumptions are rather offending, so fuck off.
All I said is that making commercials for yourself here is not only just making yourself renown, it's also useless seeing there's barely anything going on here. If you'd get into this forum with your guns blazing and having a mod at the ready, then show what else you're capable of, sure.
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I think alpha wants to see stuff he can actually play with instead of just pretty pictures. :3
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Okay, in no way did I just deserve that whole preach you just put down, Inyssius. Not only did I know pretty much everything of that already, you're pulling shit in that have nothing to do with what I said at all.
And all your presumptions are rather offending, so fuck off.
... ???
... okay?
All I said is that making commercials for yourself here is not only just making yourself renown,
If no one knows you're interested in helping, who are you going to help?
it's also useless seeing there's barely anything going on here.
Perhaps there's barely anything going on here precisely because of this attitude. I might be new here, but it seems to me as if telling people their efforts are "useless" and there's no point "[going to] all this trouble" isn't a terribly productive way to encourage participation.
Instead, I would think that--unless one likes it when "barely anything [is] going on here"--one might seek to applaud that sort of enthusiasm. After all, it could be that their eagerness to participate might spark the interest of other newcomers (and we are surely at an all-time high of those, thanks to the Humble Indie Bundle)--or even rekindle the ambitions of some long-time posters.
And wouldn't that be great? ^-^
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Look, I don't even know what I meant with it myself anymore, all I know is that you took what I said out of context, but still looking at a logic way and pissed me off with it as even /I/ can't remember what I meant with it anymore.
And it's all nice and happy that more people thanks to the HIB come here, show interests and hopefully will also make mods, but this game has been existent for a while and never really got the appreciation that it deserved. If someone waltzes in here and shows how amazing he is without actually going to make a mod kind of annoys me.
He said he'd be willing to help people with a mod, that he's interested in. And there's nothing wrong with that, but there ain't a lot of active modders here that WOULD need someone with graphical skill.
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And wouldn't that be great? ^-^
Actually... this isn't just a hypothetical question for you, is it?
From what I've read, it looks like you're upset about your private, close-knit community being invaded by new people who don't seem to understand the old style or the usual way of doing things. For my part in that, I am sorry. I know that when the human mind is used to a situation, it instinctively lashes out at anything that threatens to change it--regardless of what the human in question actually thought about that situation.
I feel your pain. I've been there. When a new edition of Dungeons & Dragons came out, the Giant in the Playground forums suddenly erupted in this reactionary fervor. People came out of the woodwork to protest this or compliment that or question the people who were protesting the other thing. Tempers were shorter on some things and longer on others. Certain topics caught fire, while formerly popular ones died down. Posting frequency shot up, and (in my eyes) the signal-to-noise frequency plummeted. I just couldn't change my own views or style to match.
Eventually, I left the Giant in the Playground forums entirely for another online community, RPGNet. I wanted to stay, but I also still wanted to participate in discussions about Dungeons & Dragons, and I knew that if I couldn't change my attitudes I would be doing more harm than good at my old hangout. I'd be grumpy and irritated all the time, and it would prevent me from taking part in otherwise reasonable discussions; and, worse, my negativity would harm the otherwise fairly positive tone of the board, alienating new posters and damaging the very sense of community that had attracted some of those people.
So, although I honestly mean no disrespect here and I bear you no ill will, I feel as if I have to ask: What do you value about this community? What impact do you think your current posting style might have on those aspects? Are you sure your deeper instincts aren't harming the very things you consciously want to nurture?
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I don't want to get in the middle of anything, but most of us are not reacting to upstart people jumping in, we welcome the enthusiasm and will take all the help we can get. Alpha has been around a lot longer than I and he has been very helpful to us on our mod with advice and suggestions. It's what keeps us going, the comments from others. I'm happy that lots of newbies have found Aquaria through the humble bundle, even if they ended up paying 50 cents for it, and the more mods we all make, the more chance of there being a sequel someday, or just a great game made with people who got together on the forums and learned their craft making mods. That's what Yogoda and I have been doing, even when the learning curve is high. We haven't talked about our bosses much because people like Alpha want us to have surprises, but we are aware that we want to make this mod better in some ways than parts of Aquaria; why do something if it's not going to be an improvement in some way? I like how James Cameron said that about the sequel to Avatar; it needs to be an improvement, an advancement in both story and technical stuff. That is our goal, and we hope it isn't a slap in the face to Alec and Derek, but an homage to their work, creativity and dedication in taking two years of their lives to create such magic as Aquaria is. And I believe most of us feel the same way; we are here to learn, to communicate, and to improve our work as we make our visions come to life.
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I would like everyone to feel welcome in these forums, please don't feel like the "community" is rejecting you, we are here to help !
I love to see creative work, even if it doesn't end up in a mod. Hehe, I love the pyramid head, a Silent Hill mod could be fun ::)
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I have some ideas for a mod, but I don't want to ruin the surprises.
In any case, all the ideas are 'visual' ideas, which I think will work great with Aquarias set-up.
I'm a very visual person as well and would rather doodle concepts than write to describe them, but I wouldn't hold back sharing your ideas with the community. The more you share and keep the community alive and inspired, the more encouragement you'll receive in return. I'm not saying show us the secret second form of your boss design, but you know what I mean. ;) And FYI, Alphasoldier means well, but comes off oddly negative sometimes.
(Not mimicking its actual art style though. I don't think I can improve the original, and neither can I draw that well)
Take the time to at least appreciate Aquaria's art style though. There's a surprising amount of freedom style-wise to work within. I'll be trying my hand at more stuff soon, but you might want to check out a thread I started about this exact topic... http://www.bit-blot.com/forum/index.php?topic=2057.0 (http://www.bit-blot.com/forum/index.php?topic=2057.0) And I don't know if you have one or not, but a graphics tablet is required for digital painting. I used scanned drawings and a mouse for over a decade and I never realized how much it was holding me back. Trust me.
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I can see a lot of misunderstanding here, so please cool down.
As any experienced forum user should know, it is incredibly easy to misinterpret something on the web. In contrast to a face to face talking, where you hear the tone of the voice, see the facial expression and the bearing of your respondent in addition to the words he says, you only see written words. And even in a real talking it is really easy to misunderstand someone, so think about how much more easy misunderstanding is here!
I can see why Alpha found Aerozol's post a bit uppish or sniffy, but that doesn't mean that they were arrogant.
Aerozol did some cool stuff and has any right to be proud of it (or of what he's able to do) and I'm really hoping to see more of it. (I forgot where this sentence was leading to. Meh. :/)
Anyways, don't do what I did in this post (;)) and Inyssius did in his post: Don't interpret other peoples posts. Chances are high that they are rightly pissed off about it. If you find something unclear or wrong, post your opinion or ask what that person exactly meant without trying to explain what he could've meant.
I'm not happy with this post but I had a long day at work and can't concentrate enough to make it better. Hope you'll still understand what I meant.
Peace. :-*
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I can see a lot of misunderstanding here, so please cool down.
As any experienced forum user should know, it is incredibly easy to misinterpret something on the web. In contrast to a face to face talking, where you hear the tone of the voice, see the facial expression and the bearing of your respondent in addition to the words he says, you only see written words. And even in a real talking it is really easy to misunderstand someone, so think about how much more easy misunderstanding is here!
I can see why Alpha found Aerozol's post a bit uppish or sniffy, but that doesn't mean that they were arrogant.
Aerozol did some cool stuff and has any right to be proud of it (or of what he's able to do) and I'm really hoping to see more of it. (I forgot where this sentence was leading to. Meh. :/)
Anyways, don't do what I did in this post (;)) and Inyssius did in his post: Don't interpret other peoples posts. Chances are high that they are rightly pissed off about it. If you find something unclear or wrong, post your opinion or ask what that person exactly meant without trying to explain what he could've meant.
I'm not happy with this post but I had a long day at work and can't concentrate enough to make it better. Hope you'll still understand what I meant.
Peace. :-*
Sorry to be a little blunt, but I'm not all too happy with it either.
I'm not entirely sure why I get a specific call-out for "interpreting other people's posts" (how can you not? isn't that how language works?)... and yet Alphasoldier can 1. tell Aerozol he's "selling himself", 2. tell me to "fuck off", and 3. accuse Aerozol of "waltzing in and showing how awesome he is without actually going to make a mod" when the entire point of the thread was that he wanted to collaborate on making a mod, without getting any mention of any of these things in your post. In fact you appear to be supporting him by saying that you could "see why Alpha found Aerozol's post a bit uppish or sniffy", whether that was your intent or not.
What happened to "treat others with respect", "be accepting of others", "work as a team", "mean words make us sad"? Is this how things normally work on this forum?
If so, maybe Alpha won't have to worry about an influx of eager new posters after all.
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You have to interpret other peoples posts to answer them, sure. But not through explaining others what they may have said/meant. Speak for yourself and not for others may be a better saying. That goes to all of us and not only for you. It's just that your post and Alphasoldier's answer ignited this argument.
I don't know why you think that Alphasoldier fears more/new users? I think he mentioned in other posts that he loves the forum being more active and lively and in its recent state.
Alphasoldiers fuck-off was not appropriate. He possibly found your post hurtful and reacted in a similar way. [My interperetation. Normally I wouldn't post it because it is his job and right to explain.]
That's for now. Maybe I shouldn't have posted in my current state at all, sorry for that. Will have a look in this thread tomorrow and see if I can better articulate what I meant.
I didn't meant that Aerozol was/is arrogant. I meant that he knew what he can do and isn't very humble about it. Others may be a bit more modest or self-deprecating but if that's not his way - not a problem.
(Edit: And now I see Alpha and you bashing me in your next posts. Hooray for me. :P)
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I'm not happy with this post but I had a long day at work and can't concentrate enough to make it better. Hope you'll still understand what I meant.
Truly, the life of a forum moderator is full of hardships. I applaud you for your commitment to this forum. No really, I'm honest.
Sorry to be a little blunt, but I'm not all too happy with it either.
Come on, he said he was tired. Could you please accept that his post wasn't perfect for the sake of letting the heat cool down? Be an example of what you want to see in others!
Maybe everyone should take some time off from this thread and spend some time playing Aquaria - in the Veil, not in the Abyss - before returning?
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Maybe everyone should take some time off from this thread and spend some time playing Aquaria - in the Veil, not in the Abyss - before returning?
Oh, come now! You can insult me all you like, but to slight the Abyss? Sirrah, this time you have gone too far! :P ;) ^-^
I intentionally put off getting Sun Form as long as possible in my last playthrough, just to spend more time carefully exploring the Abyss by wisp-, lantern-, and jelly-light. Sure, the Veil was awe-inspiring, and the Kelp Forest was breathtaking, but... getting past that pair of tunicates and into the cavern with all the lanterns and plasma worms... navigating through a tight passageway in total darkness as spiny crabs scuttle all around me... looking up in the sudden light of a deep urchin to see a whole corridor of them, each twice my size, careening off the walls... stumbling onto a cavern completely full of those huge glowing ball-creatures, jostling against one another... catching the sudden flash of an angler-fish lure and fleeing in a sudden panic through a grove of luminescent kelp... for every moment in the Veil that triggered my sense of wonder, there were three in the Abyss. :)
But I digress even further. By my count, I'm at least four full degrees of separation from the original topic now. I should probably get back to finishing up the script I was working on, no? ::)
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Haha, come on guys. Really.
We are on the internet, but let's pretend we're not for a second huh (;
I tried to post something answering Alphasoldiers problem, but I think this thread has been enough of a downer. I do have to say though, unless you tell me exactly what your problem is with what I've been posting (why am I saying this again?), you're not being very helpful.
I'm just offering help to anyone who might like it, and wanting some constructive feedback. Which has been EXTREMELY lacking, by the way. If you want things in a Mod folder, so you can give me better feedback, say so.
I guess I'll probably redo old Mr. Pyramid Head, since I've managed to gather that people like him. How lazy is it considered if you just make blank .png's for most of the sprites? Because that's what he's getting : P
Perhaps he can be used for an entire mod sometime, but a Silent Hill thing is going to be real weird to achieve in Aquaria haha.
I wouldn't hold back sharing your ideas with the community.
No, I wont, but in this case, I'd rather release it as an actual test mod, so I can gather impressions from it that way (:
Take the time to at least appreciate Aquaria's art style though. There's a surprising amount of freedom style-wise to work within.
Hehe if I didn't appreciate the art style, I wouldn't be here (I've been (trying to) use a tablet btw).
But I don't think I want to make another version of the original game, you know? I want to make something of my own, using the wonderful platform supplied for it.
But I know what you mean. You're Aquaria graphics collage thing is my background at the moment ;)
And to everyone who's hinted that my posts are a little arrogant, I honestly think the only two costumes I've tried by now are incredibly inferior compared to the ones already available for download (eg zero suit, nudity mod), and it's my first time really working with a tablet.
So I feel like 'great people think my stuff is good', but then it's like 'oh people think I'm showing off and not delivering anything' - 'And they wont tell me exactly what's good or bad'.
So I feel like I'm getting fucked a bit from every direction, excuse the expression :'(
Hmm curious to see what your script is Inyssius! If things don't come right in this thread, I'll get rid of it, and we can swap Skype/ MSN addresses or something.
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I'm sorry for tainting your topic so much aerozol, I surely wasn't intending to start out a flame war, I only found it odd that you would put up your biography here, say you were interested in making/helping with a mod, while there is barely any activity and thus no mods.
Inyssius, all I'll say to you is that I don't appreciate people joining forums with their guns blazing and their big mouth spewing crap everywhere and go around insulting people who have been here way longer than you. Actually pulling it off to preach to me, making it look like you are so much better. I really don't like people who think they're better than someone else.
I can say of myself that I am a reasonable person and if you have respect for me, you'll get it back.
Either way, again sorry for all this, aerozol, if you need any help, feel free to ask, though I doubt I can help. Again, awesome Pyramid head, get some freaky sounds, dark surroundings and it would be an amazing mod.
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Maybe everyone should take some time off from this thread and spend some time playing Aquaria - in the Veil, not in the Abyss - before returning?
Oh, come now! You can insult me all you like, but to slight the Abyss? Sirrah, this time you have gone too far! :P ;) ^-^
Oh no, I meant no disrespect for the Abyss, it's just that the Veil gives off more happy fun vibes, don't you agree? Of course you are fully entitled not to. At least it got people talking about Aquaria again. ;)
Now to contribute something on topic: aerozol, if your drawings don't end up in a mod, I am going to be very annoyed, so you'd better find someone to collaborate with! ^-^
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Constructive feedback, eh?
Pyramid head is nearly perfect. Not finding any flaws atm. I'm curious how it looks animated.
From the two Ninja costumes, I prefer the second. It looks more Ninja to me. + a ninja shouldn't have a floating white cape. ;) Did you know that Titch made a Ninja form? -> http://www.bit-blot.com/forum/index.php?topic=1532.msg18803#msg18803
The other image is to small to say anything about it, but if it's only an icon, it's okay.
I'd really like to see how this works out and how far you get creating your own game(?). :)
Sorry again if I contributed to make anyone feel miserable. You apparently can't make something good if you feel bad.
And thanks for your post, Dolphin's Cry. :)
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Constructive feedback it is, then!
I think I like your first ninja skin better than the second one, cape and swords aside. The second seems like it falls into the same trap a lot of my attempts have fallen into--it's too smooth, too matte, too airbrushed. This makes it seem more artificial than the first, and the dullness of the lighting makes it seem less three-dimensional.
On the other hand, I like the first one a lot. It has detail, and that detail looks like what it's supposed to look like. It also looks properly three-dimensional, since the lighting effects are all in order. I would suggest bandaging over the low neckline, and I would also devote more attention to the feet--as is, it looks like her bandages just sort of melt into plastic flippers. The only solution I can think of that would remain in-theme would be to drop the webbed feet from Naija altogether in favor of more human-looking ones.
I'll echo the praise of Pyramid Head. I do have one small suggestion there: you might want to smudge out the outline at the top of ol' geometry-face's right arm, the way Naija's limbs usually are, since it looks somewhat like it's attached to the guy instead of part of his body.
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I think I like your first ninja skin better than the second one, cape and swords aside. The second seems like it falls into the same trap a lot of my attempts have fallen into--it's too smooth, too matte, too airbrushed.
I think you've described the biggest hurdle for digital artists; deliberate and purposeful brush strokes. I've found that working at twice the size you want your final graphic to be works pretty good to hide any rough areas, but the hardest thing for me to discover was what kind of brush to use. I used to think that a digital brush was either hard edged or soft (feathered) with opacity settings for blending, but MyPaint's "wet brushes" are the way to go for that painted look. Use a heavy flat brush to lay down the base color and then add tones for shading with a wet brush and keep the blending of colors minimal to keep a painted look.
Anyway, that's how I managed to shake the "airbrushed" look out of my digital art. If people know of a different way to achieve Aquaria's painted look, let us know. :)
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Ninja costumes: I prefer the texture of the first one and the swords on the back from the second one. The cape would probably encumber the ninja. The webbed feet are a must though for an underwater ninja. How is she supposed to dash quickly through the ocean with human feet? :)
Pyramid head: I suppose that is a reference to pop culture I don't get. Looks interesting though. How much does the head move when it's animated? I never noticed it bopping up and down with the regular skins, but with that head the motion would be amplified. ;)
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Pyramid head is from Silent Hill, you could've tried googling it.
Also I'm curious about Pyramid head seeing he has a sword on the pic, is that simply drawn on the hand or am I missing something?
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Pyramid head: I suppose that is a reference to pop culture I don't get. Looks interesting though.
Pyramid head is from Silent Hill, you could've tried googling it.
I like it when people are honest with what they're familiar with. Don't google it, Dolphin's Cry. March to your own drum, man. :P
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... or you can Google it and then say that you had no idea of what it was until 5 minutes ago.