Bit Blot Forum
Aquaria => General => Topic started by: ZealousD on December 02, 2007, 06:08:34 am
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Hey Derek and Alec!
Congratulations on finally finishing the game! I've been eagerly awaiting the game ever since I first saw the trailer on GameTrailers.
Anyway, I've just got a couple questions on some "business" stuff. I heard the game was going to come out at $30 and I was slightly taken back, just because I was actually expecting a bit less. Now, it's not a huge problem as I'm sure the game will be worth that much, but once you get into those numbers it almost becomes an investment. However, because the title will be digitally distributed, that means that I won't be a getting a physical copy of the game, which I would prefer for such an investment. I have enough of a problem losing discs for some of my older PC games, but it's even easier for me to lose files on my computer! If Aquaria is as good as I'm hoping it is, I'll want to play it 5, 10, even 15 years from now!
The guys over at TellTale games (the ones making the new Sam and Max stuff) had a pretty good deal where you upgrade your digital purchase to a disc copy (with a bonus disc) for essentially just the cost of manufacturing and shipping, around $7-$10. Do you guys have any sort of future plans about "upgrading" to a physical copy or anything like that? Perhaps plans for ports on console platforms (IE Wii/360)? I think I'd feel more comfortable with my purchase if I could go beyond simply digital distribution.
Anyway, I'm excited for the game! Hope to be playing it soon! ^-^
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Hi, ZealousD! :)
Some people have expressed that they feel $30 is a bit high for an independent title, which is to be expected. But for the unique experience and amount of content you're getting, we believe it's very reasonable. There are roughly 2000 pieces of hand-painting artwork in the game, and 50 music tracks composed by Alec... not to mention Jenna's amazing voice work. Of course, a game has to be more than just a sum of its parts, and we've spent a lot of time working to ensure that all the pieces fit together to create a complete experience. This game is meant to be enjoyed on many levels.
And keep in mind that you're also getting the very tools we used to craft the game, and all the ensuing updates! :)
Anyway, that's not really your question, but... since a few people have brought it up to us, I thought I'd address it.
Regarding a hard copy, I totally feel you. I like to get something physical, with a nice manual to rifle through. It makes it feel like you have something tangible. So we definitely have plans to release the game on CD eventually, we just didn't want to delay the game's release any further to do it.
But yeah! When we do get some hard copies made, we'd like to do it the way you describe - let the people who have already bought the downloadable version upgrade for whatever the difference is! You can rest assured that we have been thinking about it and are planning for it. :)
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Mr Robot = 25.00
Aquaria = 30.00
Difference = 5.00 = the price of a fast food burger
So yeah, just skip McDonalds this week. Make yourself a nice sandwich at home. The game is definitely worth not eating a crappy burger for.
In terms of investment, the game isn't going to be locked to a server or anything, it'll keep on working. You could always contact us if you lose your copy somehow! So unless we've died in 10 years, you should be good.
You're also investing in the future of indie games, which will bring a warm glow to your cheeks guaranteed. I know I felt pretty good inside after buying Chocolate Castle (http://lexaloffle.com/). Even though I initially felt $20 was a bit much, I also felt like it was worth giving money to a developer I admire so he could continue to do what he does.
Boxed copies would be awesome. But its not something we can produce effectively right now, being broke and all. :'(
If the game does well enough though, I'd love to invest a bit in a limited run and do it up really nice! :D
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Haha, didn't want to give you guys the impression that I was complaining about the price point. Given how long and how much effort you guys are putting into it I think it's reasonable. Just thought I'd express the viewpoint that once you get that high, it's nice to have something tangible and in your hands. Makes it easier to keep and gives a better sense of ownership, know what I mean?
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Haha, yeah we totally do! I am a big fan of old school game manuals.
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No complaints about the price point here. Sounds like a bargain to me :)
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Considering that $30 is currently less than
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The USD to NZD exchange rate is really good right now. If it stays the same Aquaria will only cost me 38-39$. New game on the shelf = 70-100$ so Aquaria does look good to me. :D
An upgrade to hard copy does sound really cool though. Maybe hard copy has the OST on it too?
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An upgrade to hard copy does sound really cool though. Maybe hard copy has the OST on it too?
Yeah, I'd really like to do that.
For a limited run I was thinking:
Boxed version (maybe in a tin?)
* manual
* poster/map/both?
* soundtrack CD (w/ booklet/liner notes if possible)
* game CD
* maybe a personal message handwritten by me/Derek/both "thank you for supporting us" kinda thing
* some kind of plushie?? that would be so awesome if we could make it. i'm not really sure how though? (like a lil' stuffed nautilus prime or something would be pretty rad)
So the main thing would be trying to keep the cost down somehow. We printed some nice mockup manuals for IGF (like 3 of them) and it was really expensive. We'd probably have to invest in a run of them somewhere.
Yeah, I'm not really sure of the details, but we can dream. :)
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* some kind of plushie?? that would be so awesome if we could make it. i'm not really sure how though? (like a lil' stuffed nautilus prime or something would be pretty rad)
If you really want to be cool/evil, you could make one for each of the pets in the game, and randomly select one for each box--people'd have to burn money on multiple copies. I sort of expect though that a run of them would be prohibitively expensive.
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Really good will be plush Naija in normal or in other of her forms :D 8)
(BTW: How tall is Naija?It looks to me like she is very small-about several centimetre-because of those cliffs? )
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* soundtrack CD
Be sure to do this no matter what. ;) Looking forward to release!
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... There are roughly 2000 pieces of hand-painting artwork in the game,...
...would be very interesting for some sort of special edition.
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Sweet, thanks for getting back to this question. I don't think $30 sounds like too much. The game looks gorgeous, and like you said, it gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling to support independent game developers. And if you put all that stuff with a physical copy.... wow. Head asplode.
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30,00$ is a very small price for what you guys will be gettin'. I've paid more thand double this price for some commercial games that have half the content of Aquaria...
Now, back into the shadows, lurking for some other occasion to tease you all... ;) >:D
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$30 definitely seems reasonable to me. I spend more than that on console games on a pretty regular basis, and there seems to be a great deal of content for the price. The only downside is not getting a physical copy. I understand that digital distribution is becoming more popular, but I just like having the physical copy.
Also, a limited edition sounds great. The soundtrack would be especially awesome. The music sounds really great from what I've heard so far.
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I can only repeat what everybody here said before: the game is definitly worth 30 bucks (even if nobody of us has played it jet ;) )
But as far as I know/believe/hope/whatever is aquaria a full game experience. And what do you pay for a new Ps3 game? a lot more and whadda ya get ? You get often a game only produced to make money with hyper shizzle needles 3d graphics. And what offers aquaria ? A game made with ambition and love.
The limited edition is a great Idea by the way.
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What Alec suggested there gave me a warm feeling inside. O0
As long as I can convince my mum to let me use her credit card, I'm gonna be a happy guy.
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$30, that's what? about
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Location won't matter. :)
Sorry for the short post, my mind is a few places at once! Welcome to the forums!
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Fortunately $30 is peanuts to the rest of the world. Just make sure you try and promote your game with lots of international games magazines so the rest of the world can benefit from your misguided dollar.
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Location won't matter. :)
Class act, cool beans and all that malarkey.
Sorry for the short post, my mind is a few places at once! Welcome to the forums!
Why, thank you.
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A Disc version = Must buy ;)
<--- Reall excited about this game *waves* new here heh ^^,
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Yeah, same here. I like displaying my boxes, and I have to say that the logo for this game is definitely one of the most beautiful, possibly the most beautiful I've ever seen for a game. Seriously. I'm guessing that was Derek's work?
Anyway, with a logo that pretty, I'd love to have it next to Bioshock, Space Quest Collection, Orange Box, etc.
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I can't pass up this delux, special, Aquaria, dual-disc, bonus feature packed, soundtrack included, more expensive Aquaria package. :) So if there's one coming out I might have to wait on buying it right off, though I will buy it right away if there's no word of a disc when it's released for mac.
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I'm already buying the download tomorrow. Will I have to buy a special edition boxed set too? :(
Oh well. It would be worth it. (Though a discount would be nice. ;) )
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Anyway, with a logo that pretty, I'd love to have it next to Bioshock, Space Quest Collection, Orange Box, etc.
Surely you don't believe that Orange Box has a nice logo! That thing is hideous. :D
Anyway, I'm most certainly buying the game tommorow. Just thought I'd express that I'd love to have a physical copy. I really hope you guys can do it! ^-^
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Surely you don't believe that Orange Box has a nice logo! That thing is hideous. :D
Well, it is very orange. I get the feeling that if it came into contact with my Darwinia box they'd somehow cancel each-other out.
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As far as analog distribution goes, have you guys thought of Lulu.com?
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Isn't Lulu just for books?
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Surely you don't believe that Orange Box has a nice logo! That thing is hideous. :D
I wasn't saying that I think those boxes are particularly pretty... the Space Quest Collection box is quite bland. I was just imagining what it would look like next to the very few games that I have above my monitor. I actually don't know why I named what I had, it wasn't necessary... but oh well.
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man I'd pay $60 for this game. Console games are around that price and don't offer any of the freedom that Aquaria is offering I mean sure Halo3 has forge mode or whatever but having access to the editors is worth the $30 it'self.
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man I'd pay $60 for this game. Console games are around that price and don't offer any of the freedom that Aquaria is offering I mean sure Halo3 has forge mode or whatever but having access to the editors is worth the $30 it'self.
Totally agree. I've been through the tutorial, and after I finish the game i'm really looking forward to putting my own mods
together ;D
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How did I miss this thread?
To chime in:
Now having the full game, I can say it's *easily* worth 30 bucks. That's a steal. I've paid $60 for 360 games that had half the content. Obviously they had higher production values and whatnot, but Aquaria is *also* a beautiful-looking game, so couple that with tons of content, great music, and lots of replayability... $30 is very easy to part with here.
Also, I fully support the idea of a physical box copy and a Limited Edition of some sort. I would happily pay between $15 and $25 extra for the kind of stuff Alec was talking about, and I *will* if it becomes available for the simple fact that I very much want to support the guys in their endeavors. I don't know that it will mean Aquaria 2, but even if it's another project, I've seen enough from both of them (despite the fact that I'm easily confused and have mixed up their respective roles in my head numerous times) to know that I want them making more games together regardless of IP.
So sign me up for the LE and charge what you like, fellas. My credit card and complete lack of real money are at your service.
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How about a circular "box" with a picture of a whirl as the background logo + aquaria logo and maybe an image of naija for the CE-box?
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Oooh, just thought of a probably impractical idea(I'm full of those):
Clear Enamel rippled semi-see-thru case with Aquaria logo in it's normal greeny color and whirly font on the top.
Would be damned expensive to do....but would it ever be pretty :P (I might do one up myself just cuz ::) )
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Really good will be plush Naija in normal or in other of her forms :D 8)
(BTW: How tall is Naija?It looks to me like she is very small-about several centimetre-because of those cliffs? )
Judging by The Veil, she's the size of a monkey. :p
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I usually don't buy a lot of games, but I've been intrigued by Aquaria ever since the first few screenshots emerged. I'm very glad I spent the $30. Hell, if you played the demo for long enough (It took me ~90 minutes to hit the end) that's about 1/4 the length of Call of Duty 4, which goes for $60 on Xbox 360. There's just so much nice content in the game, it was well worth the purchase.
Quick question for Derek:
I've noticed a lot of people who say that they would purchase it if it was on Steam, but they don't want to fool with giving out their info to a third party. This would obviously couple with some nice visibility on Steam. Of course the con would be whatever share that Steam gets off the game as opposed to whatever you make off each sale now. Still, might not be a bad push a couple of months from now if you guys decide you might want to drop the price a little. Ever thought about going the Steam route?
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Don't do it! Steam killed my father. :o
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Although I've never used Steam I have a strange aversion to it. Not a fan of the idea, I don't think it would be an approriate distribution format for Aquaria.
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There's a thread around here somewhere where I rant obsessively about my hatred for it and Alec mocks me, hence the above comment. I won't sully another thread with my rage, but I find Steam to be a horrible ideological blunder that will be nothing but bad for consumers in the long run (hell, it's bad for them even now). Still, it's hard to say that Aquaria shouldn't be on there. The simple absence of it isn't going to hurt Steam any, much as I'd like to see Valve's efforts there crumble into dust, and having the game available there would most certainly give it more exposure and greater potential for sales. Sure, it'd be great if this could be achieved without Steam, but the number of people that use the service is staggering. Even with a great marketing campaign and lots of money to throw at it, not having a presence there is probably illogical. That's why you can find practically every game under the sun being sold there.
Still, I think the guys would perhaps do well in the short term to get it on Stardock Central, Stardock's Steam-like distribution program (that has none of the things that make Steam so rotten, at least in my experience with it). It seems like most of the products there are more in line with Aquaria's indy-friendly audience. Of course, I don't think the game should be limited to that audience alone, obviously, so it's a suggestion of only limited use, I guess. And I know nothing about what Stardock takes from sales there, etc. But it might be an easier initial step to take.
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I was really bored this morning. ;D
(http://i9.tinypic.com/6sjab03.jpg)
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^^^
That is hot.
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Let's hope you're bored more often! ;D Great job!
I would much rather buy a hard copy of the game. It's easier to get and it just feels more professional and it's great to have a hard copy. :)
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That's awesome. I'm totally inspired now. But I can't afford the time for another project... gah...
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Nicely done redstar! I was trying to imagine what a boxed version might look like and was having a bit of trouble but something like that would be perfect. Perhaps a bit more detail in the background but other than that it's great. :)
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Please, please upload that here:
http://www.thecoverproject.net/upload.php (http://www.thecoverproject.net/upload.php)
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I was really bored this morning. ;)
(http://i9.tinypic.com/6sjab03.jpg)
That's awsome, have you done a back side too? I'd love a hard copy, it's so much easy to get excited over a box than a download timer. I'm sure Derek would go all out on it. (And Alec could make a strange machine that would play the Aquaria them when you opened it!) ^-^
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Dear all,
I feel that i should chime in on the whole steam distribution stuff. In a nutshell I love the service. never had a hassle with it at all. I bought all the Half Life 2 expansions off it, CoD4, Bioshock, Darwinia and Psychonauts off it, plus a few others.
Basically, considering the large volume of people that use the service not just for Valve games but, like me, for buying many other titles you would be mad not to utilise the service. You'll get huge exposure with practically no advertising cost.
On a further note what is it that some people find so bad about steam? I noticed one person even said they don't use the program but have an aversion to it. what the hell? If someone told me that they didn't like carrots but professed to have never eaten said carrots I would lambast them quite severely for the obvious stupidity that statement oozes!
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I think one of the problems people have with steam is the question: What would happen if Steam closed down for some reason? I think there's no guarantee that you will still be able to play your games then. Also, there have been problems with Steam before where people were unable to play (non-online) games while Steam had server problems. And what if your account gets disabled?
Well, having said that, I have also bought games over Steam and I think it's currently one of the most comfortable solutions for online distribution. However, when there is a choice between a Steam-version and a non-Steam-version, I will chose the latter.
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Even if you like the rest of it, the fact that the program rarely seems to work right for a huge number of people should be issue enough. On my own boards there seems to be a running gag with how much crap people have had to take from the program and how laughable Valve's support has been. Several people who used to accuse me of having being on an anti-Valve vendetta have been so soured on Steam after a few months of use that they've more or less taken up the same banner. Not everyone has problems, true, but a lot of people just aren't savvy enough to realize how technically ridiculous Steam can be at times.
But what it ultimately comes down to is that you're allowing more and more power into the hands of people other than yourself. Valve can revoke your right to play its games at any time, whether your supposed infractions are real or imagined, and Steam can deny you the right to simply play a single player game on your own time because it demands that you update to the latest version, even if you don't want to (and yes, there are reasons people might not want to, connection speeds aside). The above poster addressed some of those concerns. And while some of these may be small steps, they're small steps in the wrong direction. Many people don't have a problem with it, and many will call those in ideological opposition to what's being done a lot of unpleasant names, but as things go forward, we're going to have less and less control over what used to be well within our grasp. It's been happening for years now, and it's only getting worse. If systems like Steam continue to grow in popularity, "ownership" will be a thing of the past, and all we'll ever be allowed to do is essentially rent content from owners at their own discretion, though we'll be paying as much or most probably more than we have for years.
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I don't like Steam.
It was a chore to get it to work, and I found it really impractical and restrictive.
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That's awsome, have you done a back side too? I'd love a hard copy, it's so much easy to get excited over a box than a download timer. I'm sure Derek would go all out on it. (And Alec could make a strange machine that would play the Aquaria them when you opened it!) ^-^
No changes to the front...
(http://i15.tinypic.com/8ac1kc7.jpg)
Large (http://i5.tinypic.com/8fmy90n.jpg).
Text/Screenshots (Could have been done better but my skills are finite) from the site, Paper background taken from the D&D Map-a-Week site (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mwa/archive2001) and review quotes from my head and a guy on GameSpot.
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Haha, we were actually going to put out some "official" printouts so that people could make their own boxes + CD labels for Christmas. ^-^
But man, awesome job.
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Seriously, it looks great. I'd be tempted to use it.
Still planning to do an official one, Alec, or are you just going to wait and put out the disk version with awesome packaging instead?
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Think we'd probably give people some stuff to make their own box for now, since we don't really have the means/desire (apparently) to produce and/or distribute one atm. (i wish we did though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111one)
But yeah, later we could do a fancy special edition with all the sweetness.
Anyways, yeah. Probably both.
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A "Gallery of sweet homemade cases" forum thread in in order:)
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A "Gallery of sweet homemade cases" forum thread in in order:)
That would rock. :)
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Sounds kewl. And the box looks awesome! :) But if you say 7+ you haven't played the game to the end, have you? It's creeping me. ;)
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the_redstar_swl, do you think you can upload the original image somewhere? It would be much easier to give this game as a gift if I could go to Kinkos and print out a nice box insert, rather than just giving someone a CDR :)
Also, that web page I posted earlier is for just such a thing. It is for people to make covers for games that didn't have a box to begin with, like Wii Sports.
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Holy mother...!!! :o
I think we'll still put out some images that you can print out to make your own jewel cases and CD labels. But hot damn, that looks amazing, redstar!
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Sounds kewl. And the box looks awesome! :) But if you say 7+ you haven't played the game to the end, have you? It's creeping me. ;)
I've only played the demo, Going to be getting it after Christmas. ;D
the_redstar_swl, do you think you can upload the original image somewhere? It would be much easier to give this game as a gift if I could go to Kinkos and print out a nice box insert, rather than just giving someone a CDR :)
Sure, 1.7mb.
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/aqudvdcoverJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/aqudvdcoverJPG.jpg)
White/Clear DVD cases can be had for about 3 bucks online.
Edit:
(http://i14.tinypic.com/6z3t5ww.jpg)
(http://i13.tinypic.com/6wxacqu.jpg)
Chances are if you've got a CD burner, It has label maker software, These should be suitable for making a regular jewel case with a bit of resizing in said software.
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovFrontJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovFrontJPG.jpg)
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovJPG.jpg)
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDsideJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDsideJPG.jpg)
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That's great. Thank you very much.
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Nice upload, thanks! I think I may try my hand at making my own this weekend. If I can stop playing the game. I keep saying I want to try my hand at doing a guitar version of the Forest God song, too, but I'll be damned if I have the time to do it.
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Great work redstar! It all looks awesome! :D
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Sounds kewl. And the box looks awesome! :) But if you say 7+ you haven't played the game to the end, have you? It's creeping me. ;)
I've only played the demo, Going to be getting it after Christmas. ;D
the_redstar_swl, do you think you can upload the original image somewhere? It would be much easier to give this game as a gift if I could go to Kinkos and print out a nice box insert, rather than just giving someone a CDR :)
Sure, 1.7mb.
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/aqudvdcoverJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/aqudvdcoverJPG.jpg)
White/Clear DVD cases can be had for about 3 bucks online.
Edit:
(http://i14.tinypic.com/6z3t5ww.jpg)
(http://i13.tinypic.com/6wxacqu.jpg)
Chances are if you've got a CD burner, It has label maker software, These should be suitable for making a regular jewel case with a bit of resizing in said software.
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovFrontJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovFrontJPG.jpg)
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDcovJPG.jpg)
http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDsideJPG.jpg (http://www.suddenlink.net/pages/the_redstar_swl/AquCDsideJPG.jpg)
I like the CD box but the DVD box's cover... Both great, you've got tallent. :)
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Man, I hadn't even thought of making a box myself...
I'll just wait with my virtual file untill the physical pack comes out.
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Nice box.
One thing that I would love to see in a Collector's Edition would be developer commentary.
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I still hope there's coming a official box, even though this already looks pretty awesome and official.
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I have to say one thing: this is freaking awesome! now everyone can make it's own physical version of Aquaria :) Great job, Redstar. I especially like the back cover, it looks great. You must have some good skills at dtp ;)
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I must say I fall into the category of people who would buy Aquaria if it was available on Steam. I have never had any problems with it and have no idea why earlier posters express such aversion to it. Introversion was able to enlarge the amount of people who played Darwinia and Defcon through Steam, I am sure it would do the same for Aquaria.
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Yep, there's a rather large discussion of it over here (http://www.bit-blot.com/forum/index.php?topic=141.0). Don't let the fact that it's not on Steam at the moment hold you back, though: all the payment methods Steam offers - including PayPal - are available through Plimus, and it's secure.
Bit Blot are (is?) considering their (its?) options, no doubt. The key difference with IV's position in '05 with Darwinia, and even late '06 with Defcon, was that the number of products on Steam were significantly lower, so while it's definitely a great option, there's no guaranteeing as great a response as IV had - I doubt that the number of users has grown as significantly as the number of products.
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For me it is not really a question of the method of payment, more of a matter of having the majority of my games condensed in the same place.
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Yeah, I don't know if Valve is interested anymore. They used to be talking to us, but now they haven't responded in a looong time.
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That really is a shame. As I said before, I think Aquaria is exactly the type of game that would prosper from being placed on that distribution platform.
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Yeah, I think it would do well. It might be that our contact at Valve is no longer there or something. I'm not really sure how to find out what happened.
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Persistence is key!
Buying a couple Companion Cube plushies probably wouldn't hurt either :p
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Yeah, I think it would do well. It might be that our contact at Valve is no longer there or something. I'm not really sure how to find out what happened.
They may have lost interest after they missed out on the initial release.
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Plenty of games are put on Steam long after they are released... I don't think that would be an issue.
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Well I think you should redouble your efforts to release on Steam, demo included, because I know I personally wouldn't know about quite a few games if they hadn't been released on Steam. I try to avoid actually purchasing through Steam if I can help it but it's great to get the word out. And getting the word out is the biggest problem sometimes.
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Yeah, I think it would do well. It might be that our contact at Valve is no longer there or something. I'm not really sure how to find out what happened.
Maybe because Valve is moving to having developers release everything themselves with SteamWorks your contacts position is no longer there.
http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=news&id=1423&cc=US
Steamworks, the same suite of tools used in best-selling PC titles Half-Life 2 and The Orange Box, is available for all PC games distributed via retail and leading online platforms such as Steam. The services included in Steamworks may be used a la carte or in any combination.
Specifically, Steamworks offers:
• Real-time stats on sales, gameplay, and product activation: Know exactly how well your title is selling before the charts are released. Find out how much of your game is being played. Login into your Steamworks account pages and view up to the hour information regarding worldwide product activations and player data.
• State of the art encryption system: Stop paying to have your game pirated before it’s released. Steamworks takes anti-piracy to a new level with strong encryption that keeps your game locked until the moment it is released.
• Territory/version control: The key-based authentication provided in Steamworks also provides territory/version controls to help curb gray market importing and deliver territory-specific content to any given country or region.
• Auto updating: Ensures all customers are playing the latest and greatest version of your games.
• Voice chat: Available for use both in and out of game.
• Multiplayer matchmaking: Steamworks offers you all the multiplayer backend and matchmaking services that have been created to support Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2, the most played action games in the world.
• Social networking services: With support for achievements, leaderboards, and avatars, Steamworks allows you to give your gamers as many rewards as you would like, plus support for tracking the world’s best professional and amateur players of your game.
• Development tools: Steamworks allows you to administer private betas which can be updated multiple times each day. Also includes data collection tools for QA, play testing, and usability studies.
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Shit post. Please ignore.
Edited: 22 March 2011
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Hmm I don't think SteamWorks lets you publish on Steam, isn't it a just a bunch of tools you can use if you're on steam or some other online distribution service?
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I stand by my connents that the chance of me buying it is greater if there is some kind of hard copy, but however, the chances (slim as they were) of me buying it when it was released dropped from before it was released. I can't explain why though. The strange thing was that I was hyping the game. Maybe Valve feels the same as I do...?
No, Valve has published lots of indie stuff on steam, so there's no reason why they wouldn't be interested. I think its more like our contact doesn't work there any more or something.
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The Steamworks announcement is basically Valve declaring war on Microsoft's Games For Windows Live initiative. Although initiative isn't quite how I'd describe it. Apathetic, underfunded, half featured vapor is more accurate. I really wish MS was more serious about GFWL, but what they've done so far is half ass at best. Valve have stepped up and want to make Steam THE Xbox Live style of unified service in the PC space. They're doing it right so far. Of course if Microsoft really wanted to, they could throw 100 million dollars at the situation and bring it to a decisive close.
There isn't much of interest in Steamworks for a game like Aquaria (non multiplayer). The detailed sales tracking would be nice for you guys to have but I would consider that a given for any sort of digital distribution. Steam achievements could be added which would please the Steam hardcores and you'd be the first non Valve game to have them. Also, assuming this would not be too hard to program, the gameplay stats and analaysis could help tip you off to where people stop playing the game, where they get stuck, if people are dying too much in some places and such. Almost like post release play testing. Nifty but pointless unless you're planning on going through the game and tweaking such things if they seem to be a problem. I probably wouldn't want to do that at this point.
I'd like to add my voice to those encouraging you guys to push the Steam issue. I've really gotten behind it in recent years and think Valve are doing some great things for PC gaming. I'm sure they'd be honored to have Aquaria on the service.
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I know some indies who have got onto Steam, so I'm going to ask them for contacts when I get a chance. (maybe at GDC or something)
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First time poster,
I despise buying anything online, but for you guys I am seriously considering it, but more to the point, this thread caught my eye and I figured I might as well throw my two cents into it.
Since you guys lack the production capabilities (i.e. $) to make limited edition cases as of now, why not supply all the digital materials to construct them ourselves?
Basically, Redstar's case multiplied by a few orders of magnitude. You could supply:
- A PDF manual (formatted for printing and binding)
- Cover art (something akin to what Redstar did)
- CD art (for those of use with burners that can do that kind of thing)
- Soundtrack files (If we can't burn our own audio CDs from MP3 we're hopeless)
- PDF liner notes
- Sewing pattern for that stuffed Nautilus Prime
From other posts and things you've told us that you basically have a version of the manual, the cover art, and the soundtrack. It wouldn't be hard to crop a piece of artwork to fit on the CD (CDs if you're making the soundtrack separately), and write up some quick liner notes. Hell, it wouldn't be too hard to outsource the plushie directions either.
Someone took the time to make a Knitted Companion Cube, a Nautilus Prime shouldn't be much harder than the average throw pillow.
http://knittedcompanioncube.blogspot.com/2007/12/knitted-companion-cube-assembly.html
Furthermore, I'm not so sure an included worldmap is such a hot idea, and I don't know of printers outside Kinkos that can do posters.
And that is my $0.02 on the situation.
Don't produce a LE case
Let us.
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great first post flibberty, I'd be into this and sounds realistic at the current size of the tumbling snowball. when and if a retail disc comes out, I've been asking myself would I actually buy it? if I would, it would be out of pure support for bitblot to make more games, but it dosn't make a lot of sense if I already have the game, just to get packaging. I would have however paid more than the $30 to dl a bigger package of files like you've outlined below. I'm sure I could convince my gf to make a crochet pattern of Noddy ( yes I named my pets, don't judge me ), if there was a callout there would probably be a few volunteers to make some goodies ;)
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Since I've been waiting for some developpement after that topic was... lost in the depths of the forum... I decided to bump it... I don't like resurecting the dead, but since I do have a few questions...
As most may have noticed, there is an option, when buying the game, to recieve a CD Version of it (for +15$). I wondered WHAT was contained in that version, if any had pictures of the jewel case, etc...
I would also appreciate to know what are the status for the Steam version of Aquaria... it's been 10 months since a responce on THIS topic (maybe I missed a topic that got a fresh answer, if so, sorry).
Any "LE case" in developpment? Or is the idea as far then was that topic? :D
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I remember Alec saying that it's an extremely bare-bones jewel case (nothing special, just security against losing the digital copy).
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Yeah, the one you can order from Plimus is just in case you want a hard copy or if you have a really slow internet connection. AFAIK its just the bare bones. (Plimus handles it, so I have no idea what kind of label they put on it)
Derek and I really want to do a Special Edition collector's case. One that's reaaally nice. The first step to that is getting the soundtrack out and seeing how well that does. The soundtrack will be a really cool collector's item. The booklet alone is beautiful and it will have a new song by me and Jenna! :)
If the OST manages to cover its costs, then we'll have a good idea of how well the Special Edition will do and can try producing that. (the SE will probably end up costing more to produce than the OST)
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I would suggest some kind of "pre-invastigation" would cover at least a few ones, too see how many people are interested in it (paying money for an pre-order bounds more people than just a simple "one-click-vote" and you could offer a 5$ discount, instead of 25$, just 20$ like the game). Hopefully your & Jennas work will be as good as allways (= awesome) ;)
For the Special Edition: I am really looking forward to it, since the game showed me what a Independent Gamedeveloper could do (long time before I recognized WoG, Gish or CC) compared to the "mono-mass comercial market", at which companies sells often the name or the graphic of a title to attract customers (less than the core content, like the story)...
If you do a Special Collector Edition (perhap you could mention that it is limited too 1000, so you could calculate the costs ?), I hope we could still make it unique by giving you our names for the title screen etc.; moreover it would be great if some goodies will be included (such as a printed Manual, an Artbook, a Map of Aquaria and some other bonus) :D
[PS: I don't know what you thought about the price, but if it's for me; I am willing to pay nearly any amount up to 80$, which I think is normal for a rare limited Collection Edition (if it should be cheaper, I still wouldn't complain) :) ]
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You speak a lot of good sense, sir! :D
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[PS: I don't know what you thought about the price, but if it's for me; I am willing to pay nearly any amount up to 80$, which I think is normal for a rare limited Collection Edition (if it should be cheaper, I still wouldn't complain) :) ]
Like everyone else that fell in love with Aquaria! And still, there are games that we do pay 50$... so why not some uber Collection Edition Case!
Suggestion on the content were pretty much made in this topic, so content is almost "allready" decided in a certain way... ;)
As for preorder: count me in! Perhaps a Donation button may help? :D
Anyway, keep up the good work, i'll watch this topic with attention and great care :) .
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At witch point are we?
Are the plans come to a concrete level (like set deadline) or still only thoughts?
Let us know!!! :)
And another thing... Please get rid of Plimus...
Every cent I give I want them to reach YOU! not a company that (ok, provides a service but) takes a ridiculously HUGE percentage of YOUR profits... (10% is even more expensive than ebay fees!)
Isn't there an alternate method to manage the financial and download parts?
Which difficulties implies doing it yourselves?
regards
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I believe the main problem is fielding the hundreds of emails that buyers send. As for doing it himself: Alec might have to create (or pay a monthly fee for) a program that fulfilled only the functions of the purchase form, and have the IRS breathing down his neck to make sure everything's legal. In the end, the ten percent fee is worth it.
Note: the above is speculation, so refrain from correcting me - thanks, lol.
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There are no concrete plans or deadlines for the disc version yet, though it's something that Alec (and I believe Derek) still wants to do. The trouble is working out the cost/logistics behind it. I'm sure Alec will make a big post if/when plans are made.
As for Plimus; while I'll agree that they are a bit poopy, 10% is not much of a cut to give for their services, and I think it's less than what Steam takes (but don't quote me on that)... recently, an iphone game publisher Alec was looking at for other projects was asking for 70%, if memory serves me right.
In any case, what Plimus offers is, as Chibi said, purchase forms and credit cards forms and all the security that has to come with that (it costs companies money to take credit cards as payment), a server for the game downloads, and some support for the purchases. This saves Alec and Derek a load of time and money, so 10% is not an unreasonable amount to give in return. Considering that they're both really busy working on other projects, it would be impossible for them to singlehandedly take on the business end of things as well.
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There you go - Nava said everything I didn't. :)
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World of Goo and Crayon Physics use a PayPal + PHP system, I think I'm going to switch to that next time. PayPal takes a significantly smaller cut.
The main reason, is because Plimus says in their FAQ that their support will handle customer download reactivation. But in reality, they just whine about it and pass the emails back to me. 10% is a lot, and they should be able to handle very simple email-based reactivation for that much.
Man, they piss me off. I don't have a lot of good things to say about them anymore. I don't think I'd recommend them to anyone after my recent experiences with them.
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If you switch, I'll try to convince some more people to buy the game to fund the change. (The lottery idea is still on the table) :)
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I'll pay $50 for a collectors edition if it came with a Naija plushie or model. [/lack of realism]
I really want a Naija plushie.
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@Titch: I guess it will cost more if the package will include such a plush, but I think it will be defenitly worth the money (don't forget it isn't easy to produce a high qualatiy, limited boxed version with extra stuff) ^-^
I would appreciate something like a nice Naija (or even a small pet) plush too (beside the magnets of the Macworld Expo :D ). Perhaps you could talk with Danielle (Ed's woman) about such a thing (she even offers individual commisions for 35$, hopefully mine will arrive soon ;) ): blog (http://www.danielleorama.blogspot.com/) & shop (http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=72244).
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Danielle would be perfect for the job - though I'm holding out for a Nautilus Prime plushie. :)
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Danielle would be perfect for the job - though I'm holding out for a Nautilus Prime plushie. :)
I wouldn't mind one of those also Chibi lol
But having the choice of paying using Paypal would make Aquaria open to a lot more peope as many won't buy anything any other way..
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A tin with a little Nautilus Prime plushie would be so cool.
This is really the kinda game that deserves to be showcased in a game collection, and a high quality disk release like that would do the trick!
I'd be willing to pay a lot for something like this. Besides supporting you guys its kinda like donating to PBS. Its for the benefit of everyone. :P
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World of Goo and Crayon Physics use a PayPal + PHP system, I think I'm going to switch to that next time. PayPal takes a significantly smaller cut.
The main reason, is because Plimus says in their FAQ that their support will handle customer download reactivation. But in reality, they just whine about it and pass the emails back to me. 10% is a lot, and they should be able to handle very simple email-based reactivation for that much.
Man, they piss me off. I don't have a lot of good things to say about them anymore. I don't think I'd recommend them to anyone after my recent experiences with them.
And that is what I wanted to ear...
Chibi and Nava, I agree with you, but 10% is still too much even if they do the work they state in the contract... and that's the point... they even do what is written on it!
As customer I PERSONALLY ENDORSE PayPal + PHP system... I feel secure.
I recently bought another game via DD (PP+php), and they granted me SIX months and 8 download retries...
After the first download (thanks God all went smooth) Plimus disabled the link... No way.
If it would depend on me I would say bye bye to Plimus now, without thinking twice.
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I've just bought Blade Runner the film on Ebay using my PP account, it has it's problems but you do feel safer with them.
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I find it hillareous that Plimus has been friendly enough to send me the game 2 times on the cd version. I now have 2 cd copies... And I paid once and once only, but they seem to disagree. It's lovely to see how well their administration is in order.
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I find it hillareous that Plimus has been friendly enough to send me the game 2 times on the cd version. I now have 2 cd copies... And I paid once and once only, but they seem to disagree. It's lovely to see how well their administration is in order.
Well aren't they the clever ones :o still you have a back up if anything happens to one of them..... lol
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Might mean someone else didn't get their copy :|
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That would add the icing to the cake, wouldn't it. >:( ;)
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Not nice but at least the other person should be able to demand their copy from them, buyers rights!
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I mentioned it in another thread, but I also am looking to pay for a physical copy of the game.
I'm currently in a little bit of debt, but if it weren't for that I'd preorder. (Filing some income tax forms should fix that.) I suppose pay now/pay later would depend on ETA VS there being any bonus to preordering. I know there was a guy who did some custom statues who took orders and didn't delivery until a whole year later.
I guess Alec is working on the iPhone version, huh? I guess that's pretty important, since that would get a lot of exposure.
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Alec's not working on the iPhone version of Aquaria - the iPhone game is called Heroes and Villains, and he's developing it with Infinite Ammo.
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I wouldn't mind making an iPhone spin-off game of Aquaria. (cause it would be smaller in scope and neat with the control scheme)
But I have a feeling Derek wouldn't really be interested.
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I mentioned it in another thread, but I also am looking to pay for a physical copy of the game.
I'm currently in a little bit of debt, but if it weren't for that I'd preorder. (Filing some income tax forms should fix that.) I suppose pay now/pay later would depend on ETA VS there being any bonus to preordering. I know there was a guy who did some custom statues who took orders and didn't delivery until a whole year later.
I guess Alec is working on the iPhone version, huh? I guess that's pretty important, since that would get a lot of exposure.
I'm trying to clear my overdraft also, I'm winning. Only I don't want that hanging over my head after July..
I don't have an iphone, I do wish that they would stop bringing out these new versions I still have a very ordinary one but at least it's not one of the originals any more :(
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Hello, a new poster here. I've played the demo a number of times, and I have a couple of only-vaguely-related things to say, but I guess I'll put them both in one post for simplicity.
I really would like to see a boxed set. In fact, I'm rather torn right now: I would like to buy the game so that I could play it and so that I could support these creative people, but I don't know what's going on with the download site and with future box plans. I dislike buying a download in general because of many reasons, mainly related to access: there are risks of losing easy access if the organization becomes unreliable, and it sounds like Plimus is now unreliable. If a boxed set existed, that would make it an easy decision to just buy the game. But should I look into buying a download anyway, because it would support the endeavour and I could probably "upgrade" later? But can I assume that a download would even work like that now? Agh, I don't know what's going on!
And . . . this probably belongs in another thread, but I was wondering about something in the full game. Specifically, inventory management. In the full game, can you move items from one slot to another? It's such a simple thing to be able to place items in the order that you want, that the lack of it was bugging me quite a bit in the demo. If it isn't in the full game, I would suggest that it be considered for a future update.
Okay, I'm set now. Thanks all, and thanks to the creators for the fun.
--Delmion
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Hello, a new poster here. I've played the demo a number of times, and I have a couple of only-vaguely-related things to say, but I guess I'll put them both in one post for simplicity.
I really would like to see a boxed set. In fact, I'm rather torn right now: I would like to buy the game so that I could play it and so that I could support these creative people, but I don't know what's going on with the download site and with future box plans. I dislike buying a download in general because of many reasons, mainly related to access: there are risks of losing easy access if the organization becomes unreliable, and it sounds like Plimus is now unreliable. If a boxed set existed, that would make it an easy decision to just buy the game. But should I look into buying a download anyway, because it would support the endeavour and I could probably "upgrade" later? But can I assume that a download would even work like that now? Agh, I don't know what's going on!
And . . . this probably belongs in another thread, but I was wondering about something in the full game. Specifically, inventory management. In the full game, can you move items from one slot to another? It's such a simple thing to be able to place items in the order that you want, that the lack of it was bugging me quite a bit in the demo. If it isn't in the full game, I would suggest that it be considered for a future update.
Okay, I'm set now. Thanks all, and thanks to the creators for the fun.
--Delmion
Plimus CAN send you a version of the game which includes a cd and it's sent in a nice sturdy envelope. Provided Plimus delivers, that is. Now, many people have had their not-so-good experiences, but mine was quite pleasant. True, they did not do their job properly, but they clearly kept me up to date on what was happening, where the package is, or at least should be and when I should contact them if something has gone wrong. The company has also clearly and quickly allowed a download of the game when I had actually placed the order, so that I could play while the delivery was being made.
I'd say the game's worth the risk. And should Alec decide to release a real boxed version, you get to have it by paying only the difference. A nice prospect, methinks.
As for the inventory, there's a way of sorting them in the full version, I tend to have the "ordered" places of items in my memory when cooking, which is really convenient if you let it be.
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Ooh, a reply!
As for the inventory, there's a way of sorting them in the full version, I tend to have the "ordered" places of items in my memory when cooking, which is really convenient if you let it be.
I hate to hammer on the same thing again, but I'm a little uncertain what you mean. "Ordered"? Do you mean that the full version has some pre-set "orders" for inventory, or suchlike?
I'd say the game's worth the risk. And should Alec decide to release a real boxed version, you get to have it by paying only the difference. A nice prospect, methinks.
Yeah, I liked the offer I saw about paying the difference. A very nice thing to do for the players. But I'm just concerned about the system because I don't know if my initial purchase could get lost or something. What was all that about problems with "e-mail reactivation"? You see, I don't understand the problem well enough to know if I should be scared about losing my money.
--Delmion
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If you invest your money in Aquaria, it isn't lost in any case. :) Don't fret, Aquaria has one of the best supports, thanks to Alec, one can imagine. The reactivation-issue was an outsourced problem, but you could and can always contact Alec directly, to get it solved. And future retail-plans won't include Plimus, that's sure I think. ;)