There will be a sequel (at least it is planned), but atm is Bit Blot working on improving Aquaria AND making another (unrelated) game. Right, Alec?
Yeah, I'm working on those. Derek is doing his own side projects now.
I have plans for two other Aquaria games that I'd love to do, but I wouldn't want to do them without Derek's involvement - in some form.
We'll have to see what happens!
In the meantime, working on something new will be a lot of fun... and it'll be with a somewhat different team too. :)
Will the monkeys be in the sequel? (If you're planning on one, that is)....
You play as a monkey in the sequel. :o
I think there's some confusion here ... lol :)
Yeah, if you're talking about a possible sequel, which we're totally not working on right now, but maybe at some point in the future... then yeah, there are some ideas where it would take place. (the secret ending hints at part of it)
In terms of energy projectiles, they are based on the same energy as souls. They exist in both worlds, but are only vulnerable to another spirit with the appropriate power.
Red crystals = memory crystals
Blue crystals = spirit crystals
More on that kind of stuff in the sequel. (if it ever happens)
I really want to make it. We have plans for this whole storyline and where it all goes. I don't think we'd work on it right away though, have something else in the works atm.
Also its kinda interesting, we planned the "to be continued" ending to only happen when you collected certain things that we thought would be hard to collect. But apparently not, a lot of people are getting that ending first. I was thinking that people would play with the shorter ending first and then the hardcore players would find out that we were hoping to make a sequel and some hints on what it would be about.
My 2 cents:
Right now I don't think we could handle working on a sequel, because we really just feel like working on something new.
That said, the sequel would be quite different from the original and involve a number of new ideas and game play concepts, so I don't think it would feel like a rehash either.
I also think it would benefit the sequel if we waited a while and came back to do it at a later point in our lives when we have a different perspective on things. (no idea when that would be) It would be interesting thematically, we could kind of challenge our old ideas.
Huge post right here ... I compiled everything Alec said about a sequel:Thank you for all the work, Chibi!
I bet he's not kidding either. :) Humans are monkeys. Maybe you get to play as Li.Will the monkeys be in the sequel? (If you're planning on one, that is)....
You play as a monkey in the sequel. :o
I think there's some confusion here ... lol :)Seeing the flying castle, I thought right away about flying forms. That would be fun. Maybe for the 3 games we'll have water, earth, and air. It would be nice if we get a mod-able engine at some point that allows us to make use of all the systems from the previous games. Swimming, flying, and walking, or whatever they end up being.
Yeah, if you're talking about a possible sequel, which we're totally not working on right now, but maybe at some point in the future... then yeah, there are some ideas where it would take place. (the secret ending hints at part of it)
My 2 cents:I'm sad that it will be so long before we get to see more, but I hope Derek intends to return to it as much as Alec does, and I'll be waiting for whenever it happens. I guess it will also give them a chance to improve and learn new things to apply to a new game.
Right now I don't think we could handle working on a sequel, because we really just feel like working on something new.
That said, the sequel would be quite different from the original and involve a number of new ideas and game play concepts, so I don't think it would feel like a rehash either.
I also think it would benefit the sequel if we waited a while and came back to do it at a later point in our lives when we have a different perspective on things. (no idea when that would be) It would be interesting thematically, we could kind of challenge our old ideas.
I bet he's not kidding either. :) Humans are monkeys. Maybe you get to play as Li.Spoiler Post:
Interesting issue; however, Li could just retrieve his helmet from the save room.I was thinking more traditional walking as far as "earth", rather than burrowing. Burrowing would probably take up a lot of info to keep track of the altered map. Maybe you could gain some wall-sticking powers or something.
If a sequel is in the works, I'd love the same swim / fly / burrow capabilities Faedyne suggested. An expedition to find the remnants of the flying city would fit the bill. :D
Swimming is not much different to flying in a game, no gravity unless you programme it in lol :DYes, gravity is more pronounced in flight than in swimming. or at least faster-acting. It wouldn't be the same at all.
Oh, is that ... Li and Naija's son? I didn't remember the ending that well. It's been a while. All I remember is a human boy in an airship. I thought maybe it was Li. I also thought there was a more Naija-like girl that I thought was their daughter, but I forget if we ever got info from the source on who she was.I bet he's not kidding either. :) Humans are monkeys. Maybe you get to play as Li.Spoiler Post:
Actually, I'd guess you'd play as Lucien, the kid you see flying away at the end, which would be a half monkey.
I actually wonder what happened to Li though, I mean, you see Naija in the crystal on the main screen, that's what happened to her, but what about Li? Did he die of old age? Or did he drown because Naija wasn't around anymore?
Looks like Alec would be willing to do a sequel if Derek is...If Derek doesn't want to front the full workload of the art for a sequal, and is just willing to take on a design/oversight role, I'm sure based on the strength of the first game, there'd be bucket-loads of artists willing to slave over the drudge work for peanuts.
Yes, gravity is more pronounced in flight than in swimming. or at least faster-acting. It wouldn't be the same at all.As they are both just propulsion through a fluid they are physically essentially the same thing bar a few variables.
Oh, is that ... Li and Naija's son? I didn't remember the ending that well. It's been a while. All I remember is a human boy in an airship. I thought maybe it was Li. I also thought there was a more Naija-like girl that I thought was their daughter, but I forget if we ever got info from the source on who she was.According to the gfx directory the girl is "luciengf" which I presume is Lucien's girlfriend.
Well, let's not put words in his mouth, but I would like to know if Derek has an interest in doing this eventually, or if he's indefinitely disinterested.Looks like Alec would be willing to do a sequel if Derek is...If Derek doesn't want to front the full workload of the art for a sequal, and is just willing to take on a design/oversight role, I'm sure based on the strength of the first game, there'd be bucket-loads of artists willing to slave over the drudge work for peanuts.
But there was no gravity put in place in the swimming in this game. (Other than when you left the water or immediately upon entering it.) If the controls were the same for the air, it would be strange. I think moving upward should be slower. I mean, you gotta flap your wings or catch an updraft to rise in the air. Maybe you could do loop-de-loops, but you'd lose some altitude when you did it.Yes, gravity is more pronounced in flight than in swimming. or at least faster-acting. It wouldn't be the same at all.As they are both just propulsion through a fluid they are physically essentially the same thing bar a few variables.
Ok, thanks.Oh, is that ... Li and Naija's son? I didn't remember the ending that well. It's been a while. All I remember is a human boy in an airship. I thought maybe it was Li. I also thought there was a more Naija-like girl that I thought was their daughter, but I forget if we ever got info from the source on who she was.According to the gfx directory the girl is "luciengf" which I presume is Lucien's girlfriend.
When I saw the ending I too thought the girl was Naija and Li's daughter, but I thought the boy must be her son (Naija's grand-son) as he looks much younger than the she does.
Hmm well, Prince Rask was brought back to life like the other leaders (except for the sun worshippers, poor guys got left out), and the other leaders got other race members greeting them - it seems implied that the Mithalans were brought back too, only they were left off-screen. Possibly because none of them figured they should go to the throne room.If the Mithalans were brought back off-screen, couldn't the same have happened to the sun worshipers? Boy, I don't remember what happened in the game or why.
So I guess the gf being Mithalan wouldn't be farfetched.
Boy, air travel would be difficult to limit without "caging the bird". or don't limit it. or set unexplained barriers when you get too far away from stuff to interact with. heh. if you didn't limit it, you could put a secret in another continent after you fly for a few days across the ocean, assuming you're character is not prone to weakening from hunger. watch there be no limits and people try that only to find there is nothing, or it loops back to the other side. hahah. :>
The ending and the plot in general seemed shallow, predictable and forced. I think the design team would do well to take the smooth and dynamic game play and apply it to a better written storyline. Perhaps hire some writers. ;-)
I think a lot of people would disagree with you on this.Correct.
The ending and the plot in general seemed shallow, predictable and forced. I think the design team would do well to take the smooth and dynamic game play and apply it to a better written storyline. Perhaps hire some writers. ;-)Perhaps you would prefer to play ninja fighting games instead, they have really brilliant story lines.........
The ending and the plot in general seemed shallow, predictable and forced. I think the design team would do well to take the smooth and dynamic game play and apply it to a better written storyline. Perhaps hire some writers. ;-)To each their own, but very few humans are not touched in some way by the story. 8) Maybe it's the issue described in the first part of this (http://www.bit-blot.com/forum/index.php?topic=1369.0) thread? :-\ :) I found the story quite deep (pardon the pun) although you have to read between the lines to truly appreciate it.
Perhaps you would prefer to play ninja fighting games instead, they have really brilliant story lines.........
But there was no gravity put in place in the swimming in this game. (Other than when you left the water or immediately upon entering it.) If the controls were the same for the air, it would be strange. I think moving upward should be slower. I mean, you gotta flap your wings or catch an updraft to rise in the air.Depends on the means of flight. Super-hero style, which just ignores any inconvenient physical laws, would work much like swimming.
If the Mithalans were brought back off-screen, couldn't the same have happened to the sun worshipers? Boy, I don't remember what happened in the game or why.Well, there was no soul to save in the Body for their race, so I'm not so sure.
Ah, too subtle for me...
Ah, too subtle for me...
I guess this is what I find confusing, the people that find the game too cheesy think its cheesy because the finer points are too subtle for them. :)
Oh no Snake, its a paradox!
Sorry to post so harshly, Grahf. You do have some reasoning for your position, though I wholeheartedly disagree with you. :)
IMO, Xenogears had a pretty terrible story, and the storytelling was even worse. It even degraded into a novel at the end. (I'm guessing they ran out of time to finish the game properly? They just ended up having large periods of text followed by a single boss or single dungeon)I haven't played Aquaria recently to re-evaluate how your story-telling relates to any of these issues.
I enjoyed playing through Xenogears, but I can't for the life of me remember anything about the plot, because it was so convoluted.
I think Aquaria relies a lot on the player's imagination to fill in the gaps. Its a more subtle/light way of telling a story. I guess the downside of that is that some people fill in the gaps with "OMG IT WOULD HAVE TO BE THIS STUPID THING THAT I HATE LOL".
Oh well, you win some, you lose some. You can't make people who are determined to hate something like it. :)
And that's one of the main reasons why I don't ever want to have to make a sequel. :D
Aquaria is a unique story in the way that it's told, and this all relies on the player. There are some people out there who are too dense to look beyond what is presented to them to what it truly means. To fully get the meaning of some events, you have to look deeper. (ie: Naija finding Li symbolizes an end to Naija's constant loneliness, but some people would only see this as "oh wow she found a boyfrnd")No, I think the end of loneliness was literally in the dialog. No reading between the lines required there.
I do think there was some cheesiness in the voice acting. Over-dramatic in places.
I think voices in games are a lot more demanding than text. With text you can imagine the voice in your head however you think it would be most appropriate. When you hear a voice, it's no longer tailored to you. It's just more difficult to get voices right than text, I think. There's just a lot more variation.
I'm sorry that Aquaria has been too difficult to repeat the process, but aren't you going to get that with ANY game you make?? How is the current game you're working on going to be spared from criticism? Is it because it doesn't have a forum? You could just close the forum.
I don't want to say the issue is irrelevant, just that it's not irreconcilable, and that I think you'll still have to deal with the issue if you keep on the profession of game-making. (I don't know if you have other jobs, like music composition or music playing; and whether they're free from criticism or just of significantly less criticism...)
The only reason I voiced this opinion to begin with is that a lot of people were talking the plot up quite a bit. I figured any forum benefits from diversity, so why not contribute?I personally think you crossed the line when you said: "Where I think Aquaria fell short was in the voice acting (Yes, I know, it was low budget, it just bothered me)", there was really nothing wrong with the voice acting and I think there wouldn't be anyone or anything that could do it any better. The way Jenna narrated everything almost perfectly to every emotion and timing. Not too overemotional and story was put in when needed.
Noooo! :o :'(
And that's one of the main reasons why I don't ever want to have to make a sequel. :D
Aquaria is a unique story in the way that it's told, and this all relies on the player. There are some people out there who are too dense to look beyond what is presented to them to what it truly means. To fully get the meaning of some events, you have to look deeper. (ie: Naija finding Li symbolizes an end to Naija's constant loneliness, but some people would only see this as "oh wow she found a boyfrnd")Considering how often Naija talks of being lonely, it's almost impossible to miss - but I don't see how that really changes anything.
I personally think you crossed the line when you said: "Where I think Aquaria fell short was in the voice acting (Yes, I know, it was low budget, it just bothered me)", there was really nothing wrong with the voice acting and I think there wouldn't be anyone or anything that could do it any better.Obviously, he disagrees. Opinions, hmm?
The way Jenna narrated everything almost perfectly to every emotion and timing. Not too overemotional and story was put in when needed.I actually think Naija's voice was fine most of the time, but those small moments combine with the downright awkwardness of Mithalas script (and acting) for a... lessened experience, I guess.
Aquaria is still a game, there has to be gameplay, not scenes with interaction like the oh-so-lacking Kingdom Hearts.Well, some sort of cutscene is necessary if the developers want to tell their own story rather than let the players make their own.
How can you say the story is anything else than perfect, if someone put so much heart into it?What does heart have to do with it? You have to rate by result, not effort.
Also I don't with Li's characterisation, it wouldn't make much sense to tell his whole lifestory, because then he would have overshadowed NaijaThere's a middle ground between telling nothing and telling their entire life story. It's hard to feel for someone that you don't know.
There's not really only one thing that needs to be improved about this gameBut there's always room for improvement, as any good artist will tell you.
Another thing some people didn't seem to like, is how quick the relationship between Li and Naija developed, but just think of it from Naija's view: If you were alone for many years, and never met any other sentient being, would YOU waste time once you finally meet someone, you can spent your life with?Not to the point of kissing at first sight. But Naija has an excuse - she met him before, even if she doesn't clearly remember it. And it's still pretty awkward to watch, even if it's realistic.
All in all we should really appreciate this piece of art , that Alec and Derek developed.And I do.
Aquaria is still a game, there has to be gameplay, not scenes with interaction like the oh-so-lacking Kingdom Hearts.Well, some sort of cutscene is necessary if the developers want to tell their own story rather than let the players make their own.
"Creature: Who goes there?"
"Naija: It... it is I, Naija."
"Creature: Naija... what a beautiful name."
"Naija: Beautiful?"
"Creature: Come closer, little Naija."
"Naija: ..."
"Naija: In the name of the Old Father! What kind of foul creature are you?"
"Nerhaji: Ha! Foul? I am Nerhaji! Once I was as mighty a God as any. Now reduced to this form... it is more than foul, it is sacrilege."
"Naija: What? Put me down!"
"Nerhaji: You are a defiant one, indeed. One I would have called a sinner, so long ago. One who would have been fed to me, as nothing more than a tasty morsel."
"Naija: *pain* Let... me... go!"
"Nerhaji: This pain you feel Naija, does it make you feel alive?"
"Naija: *pain* What...?"
"Nerhaji: Your bones could be crushed in an instant. Your spirit extinguished from this realm forever."
"Naija: *pain* ..."
"Nerhaji: You may very well be asking yourself, 'Why am I still alive?'"
"Nerhaji: The answer is simple."
"Nerhaji: It is by my grace that you are allowed to continue squirming in my mighty grasp."
"Nerhaji: For you see, Naija; I need something from you."
"Nerhaji: I require a gift, and it is a gift that even a frail mortal as yourself, can provide."
"Naija: *pain* What... do you want..."
"Nerhaji: Quite simply, Naija, I am old. I am tired."
"Nerhaji: I have spent an eternity in this place, longing to be free."
"Naija: *pain* What... makes you think... that I would free you..."
"Nerhaji: Ha! As if I would desire to rule in this dying age. No, Naija... I wish to be free from existence."
"Naija: You want to... die?"
"Nerhaji: What was truly me has long since died. All that remains is to free my spirit."
"Nerhaji: I will teach you the Song that will bind me to the void, once and for all."
Source: \scripts\maps\node_energygod.luaFor some reason I'm glad this wasn't in here. I may be very prejudging, but I don't think this would've come over right."Nerhaji: Ha! Foul? I am Nerhaji! Once I was as mighty a God as any. Now reduced to this form... it is more than foul, it is sacrilege."
"Naija: What? Put me down!"
"Nerhaji: You are a defiant one, indeed. One I would have called a sinner, so long ago. One who would have been fed to me, as nothing more than a tasty morsel."
Whatever's best for you - do it, Alec. But once you've replenished your energy stores, remember those who played Aquaria devoutly, hanging onto Naija's every word and reveling in the beauty of the game. Those are the people who await the sequel. Thank you for the hope of a return to the waters ... :)
I am quite willing to wait Alec, but please do create a sequel sometime in the next 2 or 3 years pretty please..
Naija would way sooner get in to a spiral of dementia, as she calls it. Would you want to live in a world where gods want to kill themselves? It would be a whole new look at the game, which wouldn't fit in.
I am quite willing to wait Alec, but please do create a sequel sometime in the next 2 or 3 years pretty please..
Hmm ,looks like this is what later became Mithala (or at least a part of his backstory) This would have been interesting to see in the game, although it's basically:
-I was a god but now im not
-I can kill you but i wont cause i want you to kill me
I was pretty unhappy with those ghost-priest things, it just didn't seem to fit in with everything else.
Also, you don't use your energy powers to kill the god directly, you use them to activate the laser-thingy (although, that was probably made with his power too). Although I don't see a reason for that thing to be there, besides providing Naija with a way to kill the god. I don't think any of the Krotites would have tried to use it on him. Oh well, minor inconsistency. One of the challenges of creating a game based on exploration is making a world created solely for the player appear like it isn't.
True, but I don't recall song ever being mentioned as being a significant part of any of the other races.Well, the Creator does say that the verse flows through all he made, but we can only guess to how much of an impact it had on the other races. Basically the only fact here is that it's never not been mentioned as being a significant part of the other civilizations.
The opposite side of the coin you propose is that anyone can sing, but only a few people can wield power with it. Some people are natural singers and can touch your soul with it, some like me can't even keep the same tone through an entire whole note.
It wouldn't fit in with the game as it is now, but i'm sure Derek and Alec could have made it fit in if they included it in the first place. Which wouldn't make it less or more perfect, just perfect in a different way. I could imagine having that in the game instead of the priests, and then us going "What? Undead priests? No, that would never work."That's what it's all about, isn't it? It wouldn't fit in the game as it is now, which means the whole game should have been changed, which wouldn't work.
Yeah, its not about criticism, its more about making something intensely personal that costs years of your life and much personal strain and then realizing that it wasn't worth it.(emphasis added)
I bet he's not kidding either. :) Humans are monkeys. Maybe you get to play as Li.Spoiler Post:
Actually, I'd guess you'd play as Lucien, the kid you see flying away at the end, which would be a half monkey.
I actually wonder what happened to Li though, I mean, you see Naija in the crystal on the main screen, that's what happened to her, but what about Li? Did he die of old age? Or did he drown because Naija wasn't around anymore?
I think the general idea of the quote is applying lipstick to a pig, and "dog and pony" means the facade of sophistication over a crude interior. :) Just MO.Exactly :D
"All this dog and pony, we're still monkeys the whole time
We could not help from flinging shit in our modern suits and ties"
-Modest mouse.
;-)
there's a modest mouse song about the pony express that I've had no luck thumping up. they are challenging, amazing and not easy on the pallette.
"All this dog and pony, we're still monkeys the whole time
We could not help from flinging shit in our modern suits and ties"
-Modest mouse.
;-)
MM discussion? awesome!!!Could you maybe take that to another thread if it's going to continue? I know this discussion of a sequel is probably mostly over, but I'm interested in a sequel and don't want to keep coming in here thinking there's discussion about a sequel if there isn't.
Yeah, its not about criticism, its more about making something intensely personal that costs years of your life and much personal strain and then realizing that it wasn't worth it.
I don't know, it was worth it to me personally on some level, but not as much as I wanted it to be.
I strongly second this opinion Alec, your game is awesome in many ways and I am finding that so I haven't found a fighting game that pleases me even half as much as Aquaria. (That is my opinion only so please no counter arguments please)I don't know, it was worth it to me personally on some level, but not as much as I wanted it to be.
Hmm, I guess I could see it your way. You really didn't think you accomplished much? Was it due to the numbers of sales? Probably not, but let me tell ya something bro. A good number of the gamers nowadays (sorry if this is a generalization) are a bit more into the violence games (which is ok, but there should be a nice balance) than deep thought story telling games like Aquaria. And that's a sad observation(fact?) in my opinion.
At first glance this game "may" look a bit kiddish, but it really isn't. It talks about life. It talks about peoples mistakes and the outcome of them. This game really has a deep deep level of thinking if you sit down and think about it. And to me that's a rare gem in the swamp infested game industry these days.
You know I may be spinning wheel or rehashing things many have said. But for what its worth, you guys did great with this game. I would gladly take it over any of the first person shooters coming out there.
My question to you overall is: What "is" worth it? :)
Oh and good luck with those other games i've read about. I'll keep an eye out for them. :D
Mt two cents.
I've gotta agree here.I don't know, it was worth it to me personally on some level, but not as much as I wanted it to be.
Hmm, I guess I could see it your way. You really didn't think you accomplished much? Was it due to the numbers of sales? Probably not, but let me tell ya something bro. A good number of the gamers nowadays (sorry if this is a generalization) are a bit more into the violence games (which is ok, but there should be a nice balance) than deep thought story telling games like Aquaria. And that's a sad observation(fact?) in my opinion.
At first glance this game "may" look a bit kiddish, but it really isn't. It talks about life. It talks about peoples mistakes and the outcome of them. This game really has a deep deep level of thinking if you sit down and think about it. And to me that's a rare gem in the swamp infested game industry these days.
You know I may be spinning wheel or rehashing things many have said. But for what its worth, you guys did great with this game. I would gladly take it over any of the first person shooters coming out there.
My question to you overall is: What "is" worth it? :)
Oh and good luck with those other games i've read about. I'll keep an eye out for them. :D
Mt two cents.
Derek seems to be interested in making one, even if Alec is a little hesitant...do you think it could work without Alec?Where do you have that from? Atm Alec is the one still involved and supporting the game.
we shouldn't be swayed by sales numbers, or any of that. You put your heart into the game, and it's one of the best i've ever played. I'd be really disappointed if a sequel never came...I'm keeping the faith for a sequel. If you didn't think you'd accomplished much, just look at the forums...how many thousands of us are waiting for sequel? Those are all lives you touched
Derek seems to be interested in making one, even if Alec is a little hesitant...do you think it could work without Alec?They are both "interested," of course, it's their baby. But there are other factors that limit the realistic chances of it happening. Both Alec and Derek are really busy and committed to their current projects and other ideas swirling in their heads. But taking a "mental time-out" from one project to complete something entirely different is definitely beneficial for motivation, I find. ^-^
Alec doesn't take breaks, he takes new (awesome) projects and sugarcoat them as breaks. ;DA greater truth has not been spoken. ;)
Alec doesn't take breaks, he takes new (awesome) projects and sugarcoat them as breaks. ;DA greater truth has not been spoken. ;)
If Alec and Derek are to make a sequel it would have to be after Heroes and Villains, after Marian, and after he gets all his other projects out of the way. And of course all the legal crap involved with it. And I would imagine that by the time he gets finished with all that he'd be pretty worn-out. And the last thing he needs is a bunch of screaming fans demanding that he do more work. I think we should let Alec take a break, because after all, he deserves it. If he started working on a sequel right away he won't be able to put all his effort into it (and possibly wouldn't want to) which results in a worse game, which is bad for all. I would rather he made the game later and to it's full capacity, because a game like Aquaria deserves a good sequel.
I'm thinking this summer... I'll probably try to just chill.Tear your eyes from the glowing pearls, Alec! ;) That sounds like a great idea. :)
Read a lot... swim a lot... nap a lot... make out a lot...
Maybe not get a lot of games done.
I'm thinking this summer... I'll probably try to just chill.
Read a lot... swim a lot... nap a lot... make out a lot...
Maybe not get a lot of games done.
I'm thinking this summer... I'll probably try to just chill.
Read a lot... swim a lot... nap a lot... make out a lot...
Maybe not get a lot of games done.