Bit Blot Forum

Aquaria => General => Topic started by: Vince Guavaldi on September 10, 2007, 11:41:10 am

Title: Character animation
Post by: Vince Guavaldi on September 10, 2007, 11:41:10 am
Does anyone else think the character animation looks like Terry Gilliam's stuff from Monty Python's Flying Circus?

(This is going off the gameplay video, which I realize is six months old.)
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: KingAl on September 10, 2007, 11:56:19 am
Not particularly (though perhaps a teensy bit with respect to the anglerfishesque things' jaws).
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 10, 2007, 03:41:24 pm
Which video?

The trailer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=YqY9mDOw-UI) which is 6 months old has the older set, the other two vids have newer ones.
(although it might be hard to tell because of the amount of spinning and jumping (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bsT6otdcTv0), and in the case of the linux vid, the blurriness (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iTRJVhrvwLg))

I was thinking about doing a post on animations and the animation system, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it.  ???

As the Flight of the Conchords say, "Be more constructive with your feedback".  ;)
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: xander on September 10, 2007, 04:56:09 pm
I was thinking about doing a post on animations and the animation system, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it.  ???
Go for it.  I would be interested in such a post.

xander
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: broknecho on September 11, 2007, 01:14:31 am
I would also be interested in a post about the animation...only if it doesn't delay the game  :)
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: ZealousD on September 17, 2007, 06:44:22 pm
Which video?

The trailer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=YqY9mDOw-UI) which is 6 months old has the older set, the other two vids have newer ones.
(although it might be hard to tell because of the amount of spinning and jumping (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bsT6otdcTv0), and in the case of the linux vid, the blurriness (http://youtube.com/watch?v=iTRJVhrvwLg))

I was thinking about doing a post on animations and the animation system, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it.  ???

As the Flight of the Conchords say, "Be more constructive with your feedback".  ;)

I think he's talking about the jointed sprites? I don't think it's a totally new concept, I think Symphony of the Night used it, and I know Princess Crown and Odin Sphere uses it.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 19, 2007, 04:04:30 am
I took the original as a diss to the animations, but I'm not sure if its intended that way.

A lot of people criticized Naija's swimming animation in the first full trailer. After getting bombarded with all the crap that people were flinging because of that, I went in and retooled it. I think it looks a lot better now. The more recent videos have the new swimming animation. (we also added some layered idle swimming animations that'll play as you go, and we gave her body a "breathing cage", which is really hard to notice unless you're zoomed in)

What really annoys me is not when people criticize something about the game, but when they do so in a heartless way without any attempt at understanding or explanation. Its like, if certain animations or other little details in the game aren't good enough, then tell us... 'cause we're working on the game, and we can fix that stuff up! Some people just assume that "that's it" and dismiss the entire game because of one minor detail. I don't really understand that, and I find it a painful thing to deal with.

I've tried to put as much as I can into making the animation system fluid and powerful. It has different types of lerp keys (ease), the ability to bend sprites, layering animations on different parts of the "skeleton" at once, insertion of particle effects timed to the animations...

But yet some people are just like "ITS NOT PIXEL ANIMATION, THEREFORE I HATE THIS GAME".

Ugh.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Tosheros on September 19, 2007, 10:59:08 pm
I didn't see the new video. I dont want to get spoiled XD

Edit : Raaaaah I'm a sinner now  :'( :'( :'(

I saw... and I loved (especially the music)

About the animation, there is one thing that slightly disappointed me, it was the fact that Naija awlays brushed her hairs at the same moment after she begins swimming XD

I mean... It is juste like it was scripted "9.326 seconds after the beginning of a movement, engage "hair brush" animation for 2 seconds" ...

I don't know how hard it is to program, but I would have preferd that a random time after she began her swimming, she would have done a random animation or something like that.  X-D

Sorry...
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 20, 2007, 12:05:48 am
I'm glad you noticed that. Its supposed to be random, but maybe there's a bug.

She has three different idle overlay anims for swimming right now.

* checking her hair
* stomach cramp
* stretching arm
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Tosheros on September 20, 2007, 03:11:36 pm
Maybe I just noticed it because it was obvious for an animation, I shall watch again...

Update : Just checked, she is only checking her hairs in the whole video.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 20, 2007, 05:17:04 pm
I think I just got unlucky, cause it doesn't happen that way in the game.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Zeno on September 20, 2007, 05:27:43 pm
Wow, after watching the seven-minute video, I have to say I'm really impressed at how smooth the animation is. Often with independent games I see a preference for gameplay over visuals, which is fine by me, but it looks like Aquaria is going to excel in both.  Also, I'm very happy about how it actually looks like an underwater game, instead of just a regular platform with low-grav.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 20, 2007, 05:36:22 pm
Someone said something positive about the animations?!? pinches self :)

BTW, I checked the video... she is playing different animations. There's one where she puts her back hand behind her head and stretches, and another where she picks something out of her hair and throws it away. She also checks her side right before getting to N. Prime.

I think the time intervals between just need to be randomized further.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Zam on September 20, 2007, 06:12:43 pm
I think everyone I've shown the video to is highly impressed (four, five six people?). The explosions and the bubbles are excellent -I love how those bubbles got moved around  8)
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Tosheros on September 20, 2007, 06:41:01 pm
Yeah I saw that they were spinning with naija I love this kind of smal details ^^
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Kal on September 21, 2007, 11:36:43 pm
One minor qualm I have with the animation:  is there a "hit" animation, or even flashing red whenever Naija gets hit?  If there is, I didn't notice it...

I say because, without the sound, it's a little tricky to tell when you actually take damage unless you're watching the health gauge (there were several close shaves whereyou ALMOST get hit, but she only takes damage in the few seconds towards the end of the fight).  To tell you the truth, I watched it first with the sound off, and I didn't notice you almost died until the screen border glowed red (another nice effect, btw).  On the other hand, I didn't really notice the idling animations, so...yeah, did I miss this one as well?
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 21, 2007, 11:44:46 pm
She flashes red, does a short hit animation and spawns some "Naija blood". (but don't tell the censors that!) The screen also shakes, with the amount determined by the damage.

Are you watching the YouTube video or the XVid one?
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Kal on September 22, 2007, 12:23:59 am
Youtube.  The latest one.  I guess I'll keep a closer eye out for it next time?
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 22, 2007, 12:37:39 am
I mean that its probably hard to see in the YouTube version because its small and blurry. There's a higher quality XVid download on the blog that might be clearer.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Kal on September 22, 2007, 01:50:28 am
Yeah, the DivX vid is oh-so-damn-much clearer.  Yeah, I retract my previous statement.  And I do think the "random" idle needs a little bit more scaling in the choices...the brushing-hair animation shows up very very often.  Unless...I don't know, might wanna check it in the testing, maybe we just got unlucky.  It's a nice touch, though.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Guert on September 22, 2007, 04:56:12 am
Don't worry, Alec just got unlucky when he made the video...
I'd also like to point out that the game is very intuitve... You guys were wonderin about if it was clear that the character gets hit when it happens. It is! :) It's always hard to tell from a video...
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Hiro on September 24, 2007, 01:22:13 pm
I took the original as a diss to the animations, but I'm not sure if its intended that way.

A lot of people criticized Naija's swimming animation in the first full trailer. After getting bombarded with all the crap that people were flinging because of that, I went in and retooled it. I think it looks a lot better now. The more recent videos have the new swimming animation. (we also added some layered idle swimming animations that'll play as you go, and we gave her body a "breathing cage", which is really hard to notice unless you're zoomed in)

What really annoys me is not when people criticize something about the game, but when they do so in a heartless way without any attempt at understanding or explanation. Its like, if certain animations or other little details in the game aren't good enough, then tell us... 'cause we're working on the game, and we can fix that stuff up! Some people just assume that "that's it" and dismiss the entire game because of one minor detail. I don't really understand that, and I find it a painful thing to deal with.

I've tried to put as much as I can into making the animation system fluid and powerful. It has different types of lerp keys (ease), the ability to bend sprites, layering animations on different parts of the "skeleton" at once, insertion of particle effects timed to the animations...

But yet some people are just like "ITS NOT PIXEL ANIMATION, THEREFORE I HATE THIS GAME".

Ugh.

Hey, I for one really like the way she swims. although since you mentioned being constructive with criticizism: Is there really no "firing" animation when you launch off those fireballs agains N. Prime? Because I didn't notice any. Well, when you do the 4 fireball attack thing there is, but when you just launch off single ones there isn't (or not that I saw). It looks kinda funny with her just swimming and fireballs fly out of her hands.

Oh, and a friend of mine said there should be a turn-around animation when you go past the 90 degrees limit facing down or up.

But really, I can't see anything wrong with the animations and stuff. everything wavers beautifully, and the extra little things Naija does really make her a non-static character. This game is going to be soooooo good.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on September 24, 2007, 11:20:23 pm
She moves her arm when she fires, its subtle, but its there. I feel it would be kind of annoying if she did a full body animation with her firing that much.

As to the turning animation, I have no idea how you'd accomplish that without drawing special frames of animation just for that. It doesn't seem like such a small effect would be worth all that work for us. (there's a lot of variation of Naija's graphics, and those frames would have to be drawn again for each one... I'd rather Derek spent his time making new creatures graphics :))
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Hiro on September 25, 2007, 09:46:54 am
I agree. I didn't mind the turning thing, just a friend pointed it out.
As for the firing, it's not like we will be focusing on her arms when fighting some serious underwater creeps anyway. :D If you say there is an animation, I'll just trust you and look for it when I play the game (it's kinda hard to tell when you aren't in control ;) ).

Make sure Derek makes some kickass creatures for us! :D
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: ZealousD on September 27, 2007, 07:43:25 am
I took the original as a diss to the animations, but I'm not sure if its intended that way.

I don't think it was intended that way. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLlJfGybBcc

You'll notice how in order to animate his characters, Gilliam gives his cutouts joints and then moves the limbs as needed. For somebody who's unfamiliar with the concept of jointed sprites, the comparison could be made.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: 2disbetter on October 11, 2007, 06:13:39 pm
Let me start off by saying that I am enthralled with your graphics engine. It is smooth, and really draws the viewer in.  While I know you already commented on some of these, I woudl like to suggest them again.

2 things I noticed on the animtations that I think might help:

- While swimming it would help if every once in a while she would use her arm or contour her body so as to make it look like she is actively guiding herself through the water with more than just the pumping of her legs. Even if you don't do this the swimming still looks great. It you want to go with a more dynamic swim though I feel as though this is key. Maybe implement a way for the game to know when the player is changing course more than say 45 degrees, and allow the body to contour appropriately in relations to the change in direction. I know a new couple of cells would need to be created for this, but I think the work will pay off in overall quality. (which is already abounding)

- When coming to a stop there should be a little drift action before she comes to a full stop. You might have this built in some what as I think I see it a few times. If you could add an animation to help show her stopping herself it would be great. Her arms would be the perfect thing to use in creating the stopping current. As a sub idea on this while idle and not swimming she could slowly sink lower, or you could add a simple treading water animation (Edit: I've seen this on the new trailer, looks great).

I love the way things look now, if you where to even think about implementing some more animation on these parts, I really feel it could be used to breathe a little more personality into her. (the way she gracefully changes directions, or her care free idle while not moving as examples) You could use the same system you use to detect a movement change to implement the new extra few animations. I really think it would be worth both of your times.

You're doing a great job, and I can't wait for the game to be finished.

2d

Edit: P.s.: If you don't mind me asking, but what Direct X SDK are you using?



Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Azuu on October 19, 2007, 04:24:58 am
Now i know you upgraded the swimming and other animations, are they still of file for those of us who would use it?
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on October 24, 2007, 12:09:50 am
Now i know you upgraded the swimming and other animations, are they still of file for those of us who would use it?

I have no idea what you're talking about.  :-\
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Azuu on October 24, 2007, 05:12:15 am
I took the original as a diss to the animations, but I'm not sure if its intended that way.

A lot of people criticized Naija's swimming animation in the first full trailer. After getting bombarded with all the crap that people were flinging because of that, I went in and retooled it. I think it looks a lot better now. The more recent videos have the new swimming animation. (we also added some layered idle swimming animations that'll play as you go, and we gave her body a "breathing cage", which is really hard to notice unless you're zoomed in)

What really annoys me is not when people criticize something about the game, but when they do so in a heartless way without any attempt at understanding or explanation. Its like, if certain animations or other little details in the game aren't good enough, then tell us... 'cause we're working on the game, and we can fix that stuff up! Some people just assume that "that's it" and dismiss the entire game because of one minor detail. I don't really understand that, and I find it a painful thing to deal with.

I've tried to put as much as I can into making the animation system fluid and powerful. It has different types of lerp keys (ease), the ability to bend sprites, layering animations on different parts of the "skeleton" at once, insertion of particle effects timed to the animations...

But yet some people are just like "ITS NOT PIXEL ANIMATION, THEREFORE I HATE THIS GAME".

Ugh.

do you still have the old animation that you retooled?
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Alec on October 24, 2007, 03:15:44 pm
do you still have the old animation that you retooled?

I really don't know why you're asking that.

There were many versions of Naija's animation file. The newest one is the best. Why would you want an old one?
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Azuu on October 28, 2007, 02:45:27 am
do you still have the old animation that you retooled?

I really don't know why you're asking that.

There were many versions of Naija's animation file. The newest one is the best. Why would you want an old one?
mostly for a variation and the idea of making a multiplayer mod. Maybe having a multitude of underwater people and the like fighting very hard bosses.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Stalfos on October 28, 2007, 09:20:42 pm
Woh! I love this idea! That could make a great mod indeed! ^^

Maybe Derec did draw other characters as well... characters that are yet not shown. That could be used as well I guess, for a more... hmm... vast choice of "avatar" ingame.
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Sfiera on October 28, 2007, 09:25:40 pm
Mia, perhaps?
Title: Re: Character animation
Post by: Derek on October 29, 2007, 07:43:18 pm
mostly for a variation and the idea of making a multiplayer mod. Maybe having a multitude of underwater people and the like fighting very hard bosses.

Using the animation editor, you could easily make many variations of the swimming.  It's really quite easy to use!

Maybe Derec did draw other characters as well... characters that are yet not shown. That could be used as well I guess, for a more... hmm... vast choice of "avatar" ingame.

There's a lot not yet shown!  And probably won't ever be (not by us, anyway), so you'll have to play the full game to find out. ;)