Bit Blot Forum

Bit Blot => Games => Topic started by: Alec on May 17, 2007, 06:37:34 pm

Title: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on May 17, 2007, 06:37:34 pm
So yeah, I got a Mac Book Pro fairly recently to work on the Mac port of Aquaria, and I've been looking for games for Mac.

Yeah, I realize there's a lot of games for Windows, and I dual boot XP... but still. Mac seems like it could be an awesome platform for indie games.

I've played ports of Kenta Cho games, Cave Story, some Jeff Vogel stuff, some ambrosia demos. But I'm wondering if there's any hidden gems I don't know about yet. (especially Mac-only games)

Mac fans, speak up! :)
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on May 17, 2007, 07:45:50 pm
Ambrosia Software, as you say, is a good place to start.  All of the EV games are excellent, SketchFighter is a blast, and they have a library of older games that are really quite good (I am particularly fond of Apeiron and Maelstrom).  Ares is also an excellent game, but it does not get along with OS X.

Lux Deluxe (http://sillysoft.net/lux/) is a high quality Risk clone that is, I believe Mac only.  Great support for custom maps, internet multiplayer, and reasonably good AI (plus pluggable AI).

Mutant Storm (http://www.pompomgames.com/mutantstorm.htm) is certainly not Mac only, but it is a great game (pom-pom's other game, Space Tripper, is also worth a play through).

There are others, but I am at work at the moment, and most game websites are blocked.  :\

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Zam on May 17, 2007, 10:44:06 pm
Vendetta online (Sorry, I'm obligated to : D) Indie space MMORPG. Fly's like descent.

http://www.vendetta-online.com

They've only had 3 or at maximum, 4 people working on it at a time, for at least 5 years now.

Eh, Jeff Vogel is good, cave story...Hmm.. I just wish mac os X could support those old games, most of the best indie games are from that time frame.

Okay, I'd also suggest Ev : Nova and Sketchfighter.
EV is just fun.


*edit* I was  reading through the FAQ, man, John is poetic sometimes...http://www.vendetta-online.com/h/faq_general.html
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Toom on May 17, 2007, 11:49:06 pm
I don't use my Mac for gaming (it's my workhorse; games go on my creaky PC so that I don't spend all day playing when I should be elbows-deep in Photoshop), and these aren't exactly indie games, but it's worth noting that Bungee's Marathon series, plus their earlier Pathways Into Darkness, are abandonware nowadays. HotUd (http://mac.the-underdogs.info/) to the rescue again! (NB: pretty much all of these run under Classic.)

Truth be told, I've otherwise found the Mac gaming scene to be in a shocking state.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on May 18, 2007, 12:24:28 am
Truth be told, I've otherwise found the Mac gaming scene to be in a shocking state.

Its pretty depressing.

But it still seems like the platform has potential to be a sexy base of operations for indie games... maybe things will be looking better in a few years.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Toom on May 18, 2007, 01:49:54 am
If Mac users had something in the TGF/MMF mould that didn't mong forty dongs (I'm lookin' at you, GameMaker, you dong-monger), I'd probably never see sunlight again and the indie scene would explode.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on May 18, 2007, 04:11:01 pm
... but it's worth noting that Bungee's Marathon series, plus their earlier Pathways Into Darkness, are abandonware nowadays.
They aren't exactly abandonware -- abandonware tends to imply that the company that made the game is no longer in existence, and has allowed the game to fall into a nebulous state of ownerless copyright protection.  Bungie, before they went over to MS, released the source to Marathon II / Infinity.  If you want to play the Marathon games on a modern Mac, pick up AlephOne, which is an open source version of the engine, and grab the game files from Bungie's website.

As to the state of Mac gaming, I think it comes down to the fact that most Mac users don't see Macs as gaming machines.  I have a few games on my computer, but I mostly use it for work.  If I want to play a game, I have a PS2.  I don't think that this attitude is uncommon in the Mac world.  Now, I suppose, it may be argued that it is a self fulfilling prophecy -- the Mac gaming scene sucks because there are no Mac gamers because the Mac gaming scene sucks -- but I think that most Mac users buy computers knowing that there are not many games.  People who want to play games don't buy Macs.  Thus, the status remains quo (or something like that).

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Toom on May 18, 2007, 04:29:52 pm
Yeah, that makes sense; I certainly didn't buy my Mac so I could play games on it, I bought it so I could run Photoshop and Freehand and Painter simultaneously for hours at a time without the OS suiciding ;). I did play quite a lot of games on my last Mac, in the form of emulators, but it's hardly the same thing.

"Abandonware" may imply that the parent company's gone bust or otherwise relinquished rights to the software, but my understanding of the term has always been that it refers to software no longer available for purchase from the original distributors.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on May 18, 2007, 06:36:06 pm
"Abandonware" may imply that the parent company's gone bust or otherwise relinquished rights to the software, but my understanding of the term has always been that it refers to software no longer available for purchase from the original distributors.
Doesn't Bungie still sell the Marathon disks?  I would check right now, but I am at work, and Bungie is blocked.

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Toom on May 18, 2007, 06:55:02 pm
I don't think so; I certainly haven't seen an actual physical Marathon CD in the thick end of a decade, but I've been wrong before!
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on May 18, 2007, 08:17:58 pm
I don't think so; I certainly haven't seen an actual physical Marathon CD in the thick end of a decade, but I've been wrong before!
Oh, they were selling CDs three or four years ago -- I know because that is when I replaced mine.  However, that was before they released the original data files, so I don't know about now.  At any rate, I will have a look when I get home, and don't have to muck around with the filters at work.

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on May 19, 2007, 02:04:07 am
Sorry for the double post if it offends anyone -- I am not sure entirely what the etiquette here is with regards to editing vs new posts.

Indeed, Bungie still distributes Marathon, Marathon 2, and Marathon Infinity.  The engine has been open sourced, and the data files are freely available from bungie.net .  So, I would not consider Marathon to be abandonware.  It is now freeware, but not abandoned.  The main Marathon website (http://marathon.bungie.org/) and all of the needed files (http://source.bungie.org/get/) are hosted at bungie.org (which, I think, is not affiliated with Bungie, but seems to have their blessings).

Perhaps it is just a difference in the way in which we use the word "abandonware."  Bungie is no longer supporting Marathon, and they are not really publishing it any longer, they fully support the distribution and modification of the original Marathon games.  To mean, abandonware means that nebulous state where you don't know what the actual status of a piece of software is, i.e. the publisher has not released the source, is not selling the game any longer, but still holds copyright.  This is much the same category that books fall into when they go out of print, but before the copyright has expired.  Bungie didn't abandon Marathon, in that sense -- they released it into the public domain (with a few caveats, I'm sure).

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Quemaqua on July 11, 2007, 03:40:00 pm
This doesn't directly apply to indie games, given that they tend to need less power, but I think the Mac gaming scene is largely dead because of cost and lack of customization.  If you're trying to build a gaming machine, you're going to pay out the nose for a Mac of the same power as a PC, and you won't be able to do anything to the machine once you get it.  My wife used Macs for years and years, but after she met me and saw all the stuff she was missing (and how much more she was paying), she switched to PC and never looked back.  Now she hates Macs even more than I do, which I find somewhat amusing.  But it strikes me as relevant that the things cost as much as they do.  If you're buying a Mac, it's probably for a very specific reason, otherwise you wouldn't  be shelling out that kind of money for something you could get much cheaper elsewhere.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on July 11, 2007, 05:34:21 pm
This doesn't directly apply to indie games, given that they tend to need less power, but I think the Mac gaming scene is largely dead because of cost and lack of customization.  If you're trying to build a gaming machine, you're going to pay out the nose for a Mac of the same power as a PC, and you won't be able to do anything to the machine once you get it.  My wife used Macs for years and years, but after she met me and saw all the stuff she was missing (and how much more she was paying), she switched to PC and never looked back.  Now she hates Macs even more than I do, which I find somewhat amusing.  But it strikes me as relevant that the things cost as much as they do.  If you're buying a Mac, it's probably for a very specific reason, otherwise you wouldn't  be shelling out that kind of money for something you could get much cheaper elsewhere.
1)  I dispute your notion that other PCs are much cheaper than similarly powered Macs.  Pick a Mac of your choice, then go to Dell, HP, or any other large PC retailer, and build a machine with similar power.  It will come out very close to the Mac in price (the Mac might be a bit more expensive, but generally not by more than $100).

2)  In terms of customization, it is true that you cannot swap out the motherboard or processor (in most cases -- many processor upgrades have been possible in the past, though they tended to be expensive thanks to custom parts needed); but you can swap out pretty much any other hardware.  You can add more RAM; larger, faster hard drives; better or more video cards; &c.  And modern Macs will run Windows, either in virtualization (side-by-side with Mac OS X), or on its own (Apple provides Windows drivers for the hardware as part of BootCamp).

3)  I do not believe that either cost or customization have anything to do with the supposed dearth of independent Mac games.  For starters, most indie games that I have seen are significantly less intense than AAA titles.  AAA studios can afford to bang the hardware, and push the envelope -- they have tons of developers, and money to buy lots of hardware, and if their title pushes the envelope today, they can be confident that everyone will be able to play the game in a year or two, which is fine, because they have to money to go on without making sales.  On the other hand, indies tend to be small, and the budgets tend to be tight.  Their games need to do well from the get-go, and they probably don't have the money to buy the newest and shiniest computers every year.  Though you already admitted as much in your own post.

Honestly, I believe that this supposed dearth of Mac games could stem from two things.  First, the Mac market is small.  Second, most Mac users did not buy their computers for gaming.  There is a segment of the Windows PC world that buys computers specifically for gaming.  Some of them get really high end machines, and many of them get good to moderate range machines.  But these people are going to buy every game that comes out (more or less).  If this group makes up only 5% of all computer purchases, it still makes up nearly as many potential gaming clients as all Mac sales combined (about 6% of computer purchases).  Coupled with the fact that most Mac users are not gamers, there is little reason to make the game for the Mac.

As to having nothing to do with your computer once you get it, Macs are common in video editing contexts, and in many scientific contexts -- the ease of the Aqua GUI, combined with access to Unix command line utilities makes the Mac OS a good choice for scientific work.  Macs are also just as capable of running a word processor, an internet browser, or a spreadsheet.

Finally, I disagree with your basic assumption -- that the Mac gaming scene is dead.  Many AAA titles are ported to Mac, and there are many indies that sell Mac games.  Ambrosia Software is still alive and strong, after 10+ years of publishing Mac games.  Macs will play most of the really popular games (WoW, the Sims, &c), and even if they don't work with OS X, Macs can run windows.

Now, you are welcome to dislike Macs -- I really don't care, I'm not a fanboy.  I prefer Macs for myself, but would never try to push them on other people.  But if you are going to bash them, please do so without making things up, or repeating the party line of anti-Mac zealots.

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on July 11, 2007, 08:12:36 pm
I think Macs have this crazy potential to be almost like a console in terms of games, because of the limited range of hardware.

I wish Apple would do more with its games "division", like design their own controller. Sure Macs cost more, and have limited hardware range, but these could be advantages... people expect a certain type of experience from Mac software. I want to see games made specifically for the Mac that run with that aesthetic.

I love the idea of installing apps by just dragging them. If Apple had some kind of game channel panel that you could use to view games from an online database, and drag game icons from there to your apps folder to download the demos, that could be a really cool mix of XBLA + Mac sensibilities.

I also think Macs are/can be really indie friendly, and that gets me excited.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: thewreck on July 15, 2007, 04:44:44 pm
This thread caught my attention, basically because the indie game studio which i am part of has recently decided to start making games for mac. (the games work on pc too though).

I think I might be able to share some interesting data that we gathered when releasing our first game.

We sent press releases to both Mac and PC sites/magazines and newsfeeds. We sent to the same amount of sites, for both pc and mac, and to sites of about the same 'size'.

About 90% of the mac sites published our story, even big ones. We appeared on the front page on many large sites, right next to news about steve jobs and ipod stories.

Few of the Pc sites published our story. There was a deep silence between us the recipients that was hard to analyze since they didn't answer.  However, a few of them, as i said, published the story, often on the front page of things as well.

Now, here comes the really interesting part:

When looking at the visitor traffic this generated we found a scary pattern.

(http://www.thewreck.se/files/analysis.gif)

Each time a mac site had taken up our story, the traffic skyrocketed, whilst every time a pc site had taken it up, nothing happened.

what does this mean? Can't be sure, but it sure opened our eyes about the mac community.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on July 15, 2007, 07:31:58 pm
It just shows how desperate some of us Mac users are for good games.  ;)

While I get the impression that most Mac users don't buy their computers to play games, I also think that most of them are willing to buy good games when they are released.

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Sfiera on July 29, 2007, 03:49:26 am
I for one am looking forward to Starcraft II. But, if it turns out that my current Mac isn't capable of running it, I'm not going to go out and look for a new computer; and if I were a PC user, I wouldn't go out and upgrade my graphics card either. I view it as just too expensive to keep a computer close enough to the edge to make "gaming computers" practical. That's why consoles are big these days.

Alec raises an interesting point about the console-ness of Macs, but it's not enough; IIRC, in the MacBook line, memory ranges from 1 to 4GB and VRAM from 64 to 256MB. You could certainly make a good game by targeting only the lower end, but people are in general going to want graphics to improve with their computers--that's for example why SpiderSoft made Avernum instead of "Exile X".

Obviously Avernum is not up to the standard of graphics in the PC world, but I think any distinction between the preferences of Mac and PC users in that regard may be artificial. In the PC world, latest-and-greatest games get promoted towards the hard-core gamers, and people that care about games (enough to search the indie scene) have the systems to play fancy ones anyway. Games aren't promoted to Mac users as much, so there's not that same bias in what sorts of games the average Mac user hears of. That's whence the proportionally bigger spike thewreck is seeing, and whence the sense of indie-friendliness; you're not at such a disadvantage in getting your voice out.

Of course, with the size of the market, it still probably isn't the best way to make money ;)
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: p3ter_st0ry on September 11, 2007, 03:17:13 am
Macs rule!!! Nice defense of Macs xander 8) http://www.systemshootouts.com/ is also a good site for price comparisons.
I think Apple should get their own developer page for indie game developers, that would definitely be cool. Oh, and just saying Sfiera, I'm guessing that  most indie developers aren't in the business because it's the best way to make money anyway, just saying.  ;)

I'd definitely like to see some Indie game that are optimized for quad/octo-core macs. That's my next purchase, right there  ;D
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on September 11, 2007, 03:49:17 am
Writing games for set hardware is always more fun... you can do the crazy optimizations, and weird little secrets.

Developing for the SNES would have been super rad. Limitations are actually pretty creatively inspiring!

Ah for the days when console hardware was actually crazy different...

(genesis vs. snes, nes vs. master system)
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: p3ter_st0ry on September 12, 2007, 12:13:28 am
Creativity arises out of the tension between spontaneity and limitations, the latter (like the river banks) forcing the spontaneity into the various forms which are essential to the work of art or poem.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: KingAl on September 12, 2007, 12:19:56 pm
The nice thing about that definition being that it can't be refuted, because no medium is without limitation...
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on September 13, 2007, 10:59:28 am
...no medium is without limitation...

...YET.

 :o
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: emphyrio on September 19, 2007, 02:08:12 pm
The games from grubbygames all have mac versions and are very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Sartan on November 11, 2007, 02:19:58 am
I'm somewhat horrified that no one has mentioned Wolfire (http://www.wolfire.com/) yet. David's got some intriguing little works out so far, but look at his devlog to see what he's really capable of.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on November 11, 2007, 05:12:18 am
Lugaru is awesome.  ;D
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: KingAl on November 11, 2007, 10:45:48 am
But wolves are evil and stupid and annoyng and... Aaaargh!
/me has a mental breakdown
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: 2disbetter on November 12, 2007, 11:26:38 pm
Writing for set hardware is just better because you know what your limitations are going to be. You don't have to build in scaling which save A TON of time.

Mac's are great because of the console like design, but at the same time it's the very reason they never took off like PCs.

2d
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on November 13, 2007, 07:54:56 am
I agree!

I would like to see Macs become like PC/Consoles hybrids! Why hasn't Apple designed an awesomely user friendly gamepad and built-in game launcher yet?
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on November 13, 2007, 05:16:28 pm
I agree!

I would like to see Macs become like PC/Consoles hybrids! Why hasn't Apple designed an awesomely user friendly gamepad and built-in game launcher yet?
In part, it may be a bit of a legacy issue.  Some 23 years ago, when Macs were first introduced, Jobs was very worried that people would look at the GUI, and think that Mac's were for games, relegating them to the toy category.  I think that Apple has been very slow to realize that a serious machine can also play games.  It may be the kind of thing that happens in the future, I wouldn't hold my breath -- at least not until Jobs is dead and buried.

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Sfiera on November 13, 2007, 11:13:45 pm
I think we probably only need to wait as long as it will take for the Apple TV to be dead and buried (can't be long now, can it?). There were many people who hooked up their Mac Mini to their TV for music and movies, and the mini suffered for a while as Apple pushed the Apple TV there. But, it hasn't made an impact, and since we already know Apple wants to be hooked up to your TV, I wouldn't be surprised to see them try again, with a more console-like experience (including games).
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: p3ter_st0ry on November 14, 2007, 01:58:16 am
I personally don't think Apple's ever going to release some sort of console (at least not in the near future). For one apple doesn't have direct X 10, and for another apple just doesn't really seem to care. Has anyone ever seen the pipin?
Yea...  :'(
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on November 14, 2007, 08:39:05 am
I was really talking about a console, I was more talking about how the Mac is already like a console because of the limited differences in hardware. (compared to windows machines)

I think if Apple designed some new and interesting controller, and added a "Games" folder much like the "Applications" folder (and maybe a cool looking games launcher, kinda front row or something) it would be cool. :)
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: KingAl on November 14, 2007, 10:37:06 am
p3ter_story: What about DirectX 10?
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xander on November 14, 2007, 05:20:32 pm
For one apple doesn't have direct X 10...
What does DirectX10 have to do with anything?

As to the topic of conversation, an Apple console is not the point.  The point is that, as Alec said, Apples are already like consoles, in that there is only a limited amount of hardware variability, so it should be, in theory, easy to optimize for Macs -- much more so than for generic Windows or Linux boxes.

xander
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: p3ter_st0ry on November 15, 2007, 11:11:34 pm
I do realize direct X 10 has nothing to do with what we were talking about previously. That was just aimed at Sfiera (the reason being I don't think Apple's going to release a console like the xbox because they really have no investment in gaming. If they were going to release some sort of console, they would probably approach doing it by getting developers interested w/ some sort of programming interface for games, like direct X). Maybe (?) that's clearer.

And I agree, that would be a pretty good idea to just add a games folder. It's annoying digging through the applications folder to find games (sadly most aren't worth my dock real estate).

edit: wait a second, discount everything I've said. Sorry Sfiera, I read your post wrong.  :-[
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Alec on November 15, 2007, 11:37:51 pm
I prefer programming in OpenGL to DirectX, and Mac OSX supports OpenGL quite nicely.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: thechef on November 20, 2007, 05:07:30 pm
I guess Penumbra Overture should be released for Mac soon. The linux and windows version were released a long time ago, but there is a Demo for Mac. Let's hope they release all versions at the same time when the second and last Episode of Penumbra is released (Q1/2008)
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Zam on November 21, 2007, 01:00:29 am
http://www.vendetta-online.com/

^ A rock of inde developing, there's been a grand total of around 4 guys working on this game at a time. For six years or so.

It's an awesome MMORPG. In space.
sometimes called 'space quake'  ^-^
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: p3ter_st0ry on November 21, 2007, 09:35:36 pm
Just wondering, does Open GL work as well for 3D games as Direct X?
Or is it just a matter of preference?

(I know direct X works better on some specialized graphics cards, at least I think I know  :P).

Oh, and sorry if I sounded like a complete ass before (I'm pretty sure I did). I just don't know what go into me :)
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: KingAl on November 21, 2007, 10:45:22 pm
They're different. Most obviously, OpenGL is more portable. OpenGL is an open standard and offers extensions, which mean it can take advantage of new hardware features faster, while DirectX is not, and can't without Microsoft's say-so. DirectX includes features other than Direct3D for input, networking etc., whereas you have to find other solutions  for those things if you use OpenGL. DirectX expects you to manage hardware, OpenGL implementations do so themselves.  The way you interact with them also differs, predictably enough. In terms of performance the difference isn't obvious, particularly considering issues like poor support for OpenGL by Microsoft supplied drivers and Vista drivers.

So... yeah. Different.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: p3ter_st0ry on November 22, 2007, 03:14:47 am
Thanks!!!  ;D

Glad you could clear that up for me.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Electrolite on December 10, 2007, 09:19:57 pm
I didn't see anyone mention Freeverse (http://www.freeverse.com/games/?view=mac). They've diversified over the years, but are still in the Mac game market. It's true that Apple really hasn't made a concerted effort at being a good gaming platform. They did try to do something similar to DirectX with their GameSprockets, but I don't know if those even made it to OS X. Since then they've stuck with OpenGL and OpenAL, though they do have some platform-specific OpenGL extensions that can improve performance.

I think a LiveArcade-style system like what Alec suggests would be a great idea.

Edited to add: I should clarify that I'm speaking for myself here, not for Ambrosia
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: shinygerbil on December 10, 2007, 09:55:16 pm
Bay 12 Games have apparently come a long way with porting Kobold Quest to Mac. This is good news - once KQ is ported, then Dwarf Fortress can't be far behind. I think they've actually said that the only reason they're porting KQ is so that it'll make life easier when it comes to porting DF. :)
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xvs07 on December 11, 2007, 03:08:48 pm
RE: Dwarf Fortress, Tarn "Toady One" Adams basically made it known on his forums that he'd work on porting DF when KQ was ported, reason being that they share much fundamental code.

One of the things I love about Mac gaming is the way the lack of selection forces me to seek out tiny, poorly publicized games I've never heard of.

Millenipede (http://www.firestormproductions.co.uk/millenipede/) is one of those.  Likely the most beautiful recreation of 'Pede ever spawned.  And then there's Titan Attacks (http://www.puppygames.net/titan-attacks), a really polished, jazzy Space Invaders descendant.

Xiq (http://www.rsblsb.com/xiq.shtml) is another.  It's like Qix, but you shoot lines instead of making them by moving and there's not one big, slow enemy, but a neverending onslaught.  Plus customizable music.  Definitely innovative.

I have to agree with all previous posts in that I can't think of any OS X-exclusive titles that're worth more than fifteen minutes of play, but I think exclusivity is a poor benchmark anyhow.  So without further ado, on to the usual suspects.

The same guy (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://shinh.skr.jp/osxbin/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Disshiki%2B%2522made%2Bin%2Bwired%2522%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DxbP) who ported most of Cho's games also ported a slew by Junpei Isshiki.

Numerous roguelikes in several variations each have been ported to the Mac.  Scads of Angband variants, mostly, but also Nethack, ADoM, ToME, Moria, and Crawl.

Speaking of Crawl, Henzell's Overgod and Garden of Colored Lights were ported.  Can't remember where I found them, but a little google-fu and you should have them.

Jon Mak's Gate88 is compatible, as is Marco Incitti's Gridwars.

Several of Retrospec's releases (http://retrospec.sgn.net/games.php) are OS X-compatible, including Head Over Heels and Wizball.

And, well, lotsa stuff is cross compatible.  Lots.  Kiki the Nanobot, Facade, BZFlag, Escape Velocity, Jet Set Willy, Mutant Storm, N, Super DX-Ball, Super Mario War, numerous ports of Ultimas, and then there are all of LittleWing's fabulous pinball games.  People talk about Macs not being any fun, but I've never lacked.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: p3ter_st0ry on December 11, 2007, 11:12:54 pm
Dude, you can't think of any mac specific game worth more than 15 minutes? Sorry man, but you just slapped Ambrosia in the face!

I mean, let me list some:
First of all, the Marathon trilogy.
Secondly, Myst.
And lastly, for some more recent examples, anything from Ambrosia (including Mac specific titles like Redline)

Way I see it is big corporations want to sell the most games, so they port to Windows first. Also, look what happened to Bungie after it was bought out by MS: not Mac specific anymore, eh?

These games are EPIC. Pay them some respect man  >:(
No hard feelings though  ;D
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: xvs07 on December 12, 2007, 01:40:05 pm
Dude, you can't think of any mac specific game worth more than 15 minutes? Sorry man, but you just slapped Ambrosia in the face!


Sorry I didn't clarify, but I did specifically refer to OS X games.  I can think of loads of games I've played for months that run just dandy on MacOS 7 or earlier but not on anything else, OS X included.  Taskmaker, Quagmire, and Avara are the ones that leap immediately to mind.  Speaking of Avara, yeah I like a lot of what Ambrosia did back in the day, but I'm also one of those die-hards that's still bitter about some of the bad blood surrounding Avara, and furthermore I don't think their latest creations have as much verve as the classics (Maelstrom, Escape Velocity, Apeiron, et cetera).  ::shrug:: But hey, whatever, right?  Ambrosia's kinda shifted over to being more of a publisher, but they're still good for games and good for gaming, so play ball.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: Kagenoku on December 12, 2007, 07:44:26 pm
"Taskmaker"
"excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. Get out of the way! Excuse me."
"Danger!"
Ah Taskmaker that ol' game, many hours of my childhood lost to it.
Tomb of the Taskmaker was not as good, way too many things dropped by monsters.

Spiderweb Software is another good place for mac games, but with their bigger games they port them to windows after the mac version is out. Spiderweb Software makes RPG's and Strategy games no action/adventure games like Aquaria is.
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: 2disbetter on October 02, 2008, 08:45:24 pm
They're different. Most obviously, OpenGL is more portable. OpenGL is an open standard and offers extensions, which mean it can take advantage of new hardware features faster, while DirectX is not, and can't without Microsoft's say-so. DirectX includes features other than Direct3D for input, networking etc., whereas you have to find other solutions  for those things if you use OpenGL. DirectX expects you to manage hardware, OpenGL implementations do so themselves.  The way you interact with them also differs, predictably enough. In terms of performance the difference isn't obvious, particularly considering issues like poor support for OpenGL by Microsoft supplied drivers and Vista drivers.

So... yeah. Different.

Not rez this thread, but I felt like chiming in here. It should also be noted that OpenGL is all but dead atm compared to DirectX  which is thriving. It's all really about the support structure for both. Whiel Direct x requires more from it's coder, it allows for more.

I've seen a game on both the PC and Mac maxed out, and the PC version blows the mac one out of the water. It's not becuase of hardware, but it;s software. But windows on the mac, and you'll see the same graphics.

So while openGL has potential as it always did, it will never be able to compete with Direct X without the kind of backing Microsoft can provide.

That being said, DirectX is doing some pretty amazing things to advance the gaming graphics side of the house.

2d
Title: Re: Mac Indie Games
Post by: ancestral on October 03, 2008, 10:53:38 pm
Not rez this thread, but I felt like chiming in here. It should also be noted that OpenGL is all but dead atm compared to DirectX  which is thriving. It's all really about the support structure for both. Whiel Direct x requires more from it's coder, it allows for more.

I've seen a game on both the PC and Mac maxed out, and the PC version blows the mac one out of the water. It's not becuase of hardware, but it[']s software. But windows on the mac, and you'll see the same graphics.

So while openGL has potential as it always did, it will never be able to compete with Direct X without the kind of backing Microsoft can provide.

That being said, DirectX is doing some pretty amazing things to advance the gaming graphics side of the house.

2d

It's really about how optimized the code is to leverage the graphics. OS X on x86 hasn't even been 3 years and it's uses aren't targeted at gaming. But it's also the sheer number of developers. There are more of them on the Windows side, and that's what happens. Where there are more developers, there will usually be more performance.

However, I'd disagree with your statement of OpenGL. If anything, it may be making a quiet comeback. More and more developers are opening to the iPhone and using OpenGL ES.